Cornish Mystery

[deb usa]

Hi Johanna

Nice to meet you.    I have just spoken to my mum and she used to call your grandmother Aunty Rene (pronounced Reen-nie)  Is your mum Margaret? If so, my mum, Maureen, says to say "Hi Cousin" .

Hi to  everyone else ...for some reason I did not get your replies on my email  ... I need to catch up

deb 

[Britgirl]

Hi Johanna, from a slightly more distant cousin! I'm descended from Bessie Palmer's sister Mary!

So do either of you know anything about a possible second family for Bessie & Mary's father John Palmer? 

It's just that we know his wife Mary (Smith/Slack) appears to have left him by the 1901 census, and there is no sign of a death for her as far as we can tell. John was living with his son John (Jack) in 1901.

But in the 1911 Jack was living with his sister Mary's family and John Sr it appears is living with an Alice PHILP  and their 3 children in Charles St, Truro, a long time Palmer location.
She is recorded as being his housekeeper (29), but although the writing is very bad (looks like John was semi-literate) the children were Molam (William?) aged 7, Freadey (Freddy?) aged 6, Eva, 4 and Joseph 1, and are all recorded as his son with the surname Palmer.

FreeBMD lists no marriage or suitable children under Palmer, but for PHILP it shows
William John P (for Palmer perhaps?) Dec 1903
Frederick Dec 1904
Eva Rosalia P Sep 1906
Joseph James P Mar 1910

An Ada Kathleen P Philp (Sep 1907) and a Daisy Palmer Philp (Dec 1908) both died just before the census in the March Qtr 1911 and could be theirs too.

I haven't had a chance to look at the baptisms to see if they give any more clues, but I'd say it's looking like a stong possibility he took up with someone else after his wife went!

What do you think? 

[Truromian]

Fiona
On 20th October was the 90th anniversary of the Levant Mine disaster
and on the local West Country news they were talking about one chap William J Hocking - there are family members still in Penzance sorry I wasnt able to catch the names - but if this is Your Hocking then you will be able to find information by checking on google for the Levant Mine Disaster
Hope this helps

[Truromian]

this may be of help

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/tin-mining/background_conditions.shtml

[deb usa]

Hi everyone

Hi Cousin Britgirl 

I didn't know about the 2nd family for John Palmer.  It seems that he would then be having 'new' children at the same time Bessie Palmer Penfold was having her children. I wonder if this would account for the bad vibes on my side of the family.

In 1901 John and John/Jack(jnr) were living next door to William and Bessie Penfold in Calenick St, Kenwyn.
There is an Alice Philp, 20, servant, b Truro, living in St Clement in 1901. Can't see her in 1891.

No-one in my family has ever mentioned a second family, surely they would haver known about them! I have the 1911 census of William and Bessie Penfold .... will find it and see what street they are living in.

BBS

deb

[deb usa]

Hi

Okay ..By 1911 William and Bessie Penfold are living at No. 1 Mill Place, Truro.

I have also just spoken to my mother and it seems that there is a great possibility that John Palmer had a second family.  She is going to ask her Penfold cousin for more info.

Britgirl ...thanks for finding all of this .... it seems you may have solved some unanswered questions that have laid hidden in our family!

deb 

[jotom13]

Hi Deb,
             I spoke to my mum, she remembers meeting your mum when she was about 15. She said she is hoping to visit Cornwall in the near future and look up some of her relatives. I think she has a phone number for your mum too and is thinking of giving her a bell, in the mean time tell her she says hi.
Hello to you too Britgirl, I'm still trying to wade though all the info all of you have been working on over the past few years. It's fasinating, but rather confusing at times. It's very exciting to speak to you and Deb. The Internet is really amazing.  Jo

[Britgirl]

Shame my Grandad isn't still alive. Jack Palmer (who was living with his family in 1911) was his favourite uncle, so he would have known for sure!

Wish I knew what happened to John's wife Mary. But trying to find a Mary Palmer isn't going to be easy!! Even if she couldn't marry again, she could be living with someone under a married name in 1911! 

And I've had the hardest time finding Bessie, Mary & Jack's sister Annie after 1901 when she was living as a servant in Kenwyn. She is transcribed as Anna Poliner on Ancestry, but the image is clear it's her

[deb usa]

Hi Britgirl 

I have the 1911 image of John snr and 'family' ...it seems to me that someone else filled out the census as his signature does not correspond. Also he seems to have added several details ..eg: His and Alice's POB and her occupation within the household. John still states that he is Married ...so where is Mary? arrghhhhhhh 

My mother has met several "Palmers", not knowing that they were from the 2nd marriage, although it had been alluded to that they were her cousins.  It is all falling into place for her. My Nan was told by her mum, Bessie Palmer Penfold NOT to ever talk to certain Palmer children. They had to have been from the 2nd "wife".

will search for Mary some more.

Hi Jo ... great to see you back!I'm sure my mum would love to see your mum again. How fun is this? 

deb