Author Topic: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay  (Read 24072 times)

Offline djct59

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 13:48 BST (UK) »
Sorry - I'm a bit lost.

The younger John Ross (born 1775) married Robina MacKenzie, migrated to Nova Scotia and died there?

The Quartermaster who died in Musselburgh in 1837 was presumably born before 1764, as he's not in the parish records?

Offline wilros

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 15:27 BST (UK) »
All - Thanks very much for the replies!  Sorry for the meandering narrative. I’ll try to do better this time!

Hugh Ross of Borley is my 4th great grandfather. He has no birth record, no marriage record, and his first 3 children were born in 1755, 1759, and 1763 - all before 4 November 1764 when Rev. Thompson commenced his baptism register for Durness Parish. After that date Hugh Ross of Borley is visible as the father on six baptisms in the Durness registry - 1766, 1768, 1771, 1775, 1778, and 1781. Hugh’s wife Jean Manson of Borley is recorded on only one of the baptisms. The tablestone for their grave at Balnakeil provides their ages and dates of death, so we know them as Hugh (about 1755-1799) and Jean (about 1738-1831).

For John Ross, their first child, and a Quartermaster in the 71st Highlander Regiment of Foot, we have the memorial stone he erected at Balnakeil in honor of his parents, a grave stone at Inveresk from his brother officers honoring his 44 years of service in the army and noting his age at death and his death date in 1837, plus his entry on the local death registry, and his 4 page will filed in Edinburgh Sheriff Court. Therefore we have a high level of confidence in a birth for Quartermaster John Ross in Borley in 1755.

For Merran Ross, their second child, all we have is the memorial inscription about her short life (1759-1788) on the table stone at Balnakeil for Angus MacLeod and Janel Ross MacLeod.

For William Ross, their third child, we have circumstantial evidence for his birth in 1763, including the baptism in 1780 of the child he fathered as a single young lad in Borley. But the most important primary evidence is the will of QM John Ross in 1837, who directed Rev. Findlater to divide his estate in five equal shares "... to Donald Ross, now or lately residing at Pictou in Nova Scotia, John Ross residing at Boularderie Island of Cape Breton in North America, both my brothers, and to my sisters Barbara Ross, widow of the late Kenneth McCulloch residing in the Parish of Durness aforesaid and Janet Ross wife of Angus MacLeod farmer in the said Parish of Durness and Donald Ross my nephew son of the deceased William Ross my brother and found lately residing in the Isle of Hoan Parish of Durness aforesaid..."

Finally, we have this baptism in 1781: "Hugh Ross, alias MacEanmbicoun, tenent in Borley, and his wife Jean Manson, William, 13 July 1781"

I think this baptism is not a child, this is teenage William brought back to the congregation by his parents after his transgression the prior year for fathering a child as a "single young lad." There is a rich stream of evidence for the other siblings - Barbara (1768), Donald (1771), John (1775, my 3rd ggf), and Janet (1778), strong evidence of the first William, and no evidence of a second William.

In other words, two Johns, only one William, and hundreds of descendants.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but their descendants were a testament to the School at Loch Croisbol and the kind of citizens that emerged from Durness Parish - one grandson of Hugh and Jean was an MP in the first Canadian Parliament (1867-1874), and Minister of the Militia in the cabinet, and later a Senator in the Canadian Parliament (1905-1912). And a great-grandson of Hugh and Jean was Lieutenant Governor of the Province of Ontario, Canada (1927-1932). Both are in Wikipedia.

:-)
Ross, Manson, Mackenzie, Mackay, McGregor, McColl, Chisholm, McLellan, Grant, Calder, Sinclair, Carpenter, Bowen, Carothers, Wilson, Renwick, Gillette, Warner, McBride, Struthers, McKee, Hogg, Dunbar, Anderson

Online Forfarian

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 17:26 BST (UK) »
Hugh Ross of Borley is my 4th great grandfather. He has no birth record, no marriage record, and his first 3 children were born in 1755, 1759, and 1763 ....The tablestone for their grave at Balnakeil provides their ages and dates of death, so we know them as Hugh (about 1755-1799) and Jean (about 1738-1831).
If Hugh's first child was born in 1755, he himself can't have been born in 1755! Are you perhaps mixing up two different generations?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline wilros

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 19:35 BST (UK) »
Forfarian - yes, you're right, that was a typo on my part. The tablestone on Hugh's grave says his year of death (1799) and his age at death (68), therefore he was born about 1731.

Hugh Ross of Borley (1731-1799)
Ross, Manson, Mackenzie, Mackay, McGregor, McColl, Chisholm, McLellan, Grant, Calder, Sinclair, Carpenter, Bowen, Carothers, Wilson, Renwick, Gillette, Warner, McBride, Struthers, McKee, Hogg, Dunbar, Anderson


Offline djct59

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 19:55 BST (UK) »
I'm still not wholly convinced your evidence justifies every one of your conclusions.

Hugh Ross died in June 1799 aged 68 so was born around 1731

Jean Manson died in March 1831 aged 93 so was born in 1737-38.

Merran/Marion (1759-88) was their daughter.

Their first child in the parish records is Donald (b. 1766), but previous birth of John and William are clearly feasible.

What I cannot accept is that William was baptised as an adult in 1781. Where a child is over the age of one, this is recorded in the baptism records. In Presbyterian Scotland baptism of an adult is unknown, and baptism of a child after he has fathered an illegitimate child and not married the child's mother is preposterous. His disappearance from the records is more likely to be the result of early death as there were next to no death records kept.

We then move to Donald, William's son, located on Eilean Hoan in the 1830s. He must be the child of William and Janet, born in 1780. He married Isabella Calder and they had ten children between 1812 and 1832 (Donald, Marion, William, Mary, Robert Hugh, Janet, Jane, Williamina, Isabella and John). His eldest son Donald fathered a child Catherine out of wedlock in August 1837. The mother was Fairlie Beaton, wife of Alexander Gunn, house carpenter now at Smoo. Baptism was delayed until 1839 when the paternal grandparents became sponsors

However the reference in a will dated 1837 to Barbara McCulloch as Kenneth's "widow" is confusing. We need to take the online gravestone information with a pinch of salt. She died in 1858 (the reference in the burial records to 1878 is clearly an error due to the stone being faded). Likewise it is implausible that Kenneth died in 1857 aged 74, as he was married in February 1788, so I presume he died in 1837, as Barbara was living at the Manse and listed as of independent means in 1841. Was the Will written after June 1837?

Janet and Angus MacLeod were both alive in 1837 so the will makes sense in that regard.

I've located the man who was, I presume, your grandfather.

 

Offline wilros

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 21:10 BST (UK) »
djct59 - thanks for the comments, good points.

To be clear, I'm not fully convinced my evidence justifies my conclusions. Parts of this are a work in progress.

It's true as you say that the death of the first William after the birth of his son would clear the way for a second William. It would be great to find evidence of the adult a second William would have become.

Also, if Jean Manson had a new infant in 1781, then the pregnancy was 3 years after her prior pregnancy with Janet, and she would have been 43 years old, so it is not impossible that a 1781 pregnancy occurred.

I have similar details as you presented about Donald Ross + Isobel Calder, including the adoption by the parents of their (illegitimate) grandson, but I have that child's mother's name as Fairley Bethune

About the Will, I'm not sure exactly how to read it. One part in the top half of the first page says, "At Edinburgh the third day of May Eighteen hundred and thirty seven years the following inventory of the Personal Estate of John Rofs deceased and (unclear) relative to the disposal thereof were presented by Mr. Thomas Lees (unclear)." Thus, I think the answer your question, Was the Will written after June 1837? is "no."

I can't speak to your points about Kenneth MacCulloch because I have not progressed in my investigation past his marriage to Barbara, and I don't currently have his date of birth.

I'm confused by your comment about my grandfather - I assume you mean my great-grandfather. My father's paternal grandfather was William D Ross (1869-1947), he is in Wikipedia due to his service as Lieutenant Governor of Ontario. Meanwhile, his son, my paternal grandfather Donald Gordon Ross, lived in Toronto, Ontario, Canada from 1902-1981, and he is not in Wikipedia.

Please let me know if I failed to respond to any of your points. Again, I very much appreciate your comments.
Ross, Manson, Mackenzie, Mackay, McGregor, McColl, Chisholm, McLellan, Grant, Calder, Sinclair, Carpenter, Bowen, Carothers, Wilson, Renwick, Gillette, Warner, McBride, Struthers, McKee, Hogg, Dunbar, Anderson

Offline djct59

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 21:39 BST (UK) »
Sorry - I miscounted the generations. You know your own family obviously.

I do see that Fairly Beaton is listed as daughter of "Alexr Bethune Kainer Acharn". That looks like a bad transcription. Alexander Beaton appears to have lived at Aultan/Aldan, on the Cape side of the Kyle of Durness in the period 1815-30. A cainer appears to have been a maker of walking sticks.

It appears that Mlle Beaton told poor Mr Gunn he was the father, as they married the month of Catherine's birth, then the truth must have emerged and he left her to go to Smoo.

Was William D Ross a nephew of Senator William Ross of Nova Scotia (1825-1912)?

Offline wilros

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 22:11 BST (UK) »
djct59 - yes, William D Ross (1869-1947) is a nephew of William Ross (1825-1912). btw, I just uploaded a picture of the LtGov in his official capacity hosting a luncheon for a visiting MP from London, England at Government House, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, on 17 August 1929. lol.
Ross, Manson, Mackenzie, Mackay, McGregor, McColl, Chisholm, McLellan, Grant, Calder, Sinclair, Carpenter, Bowen, Carothers, Wilson, Renwick, Gillette, Warner, McBride, Struthers, McKee, Hogg, Dunbar, Anderson

Offline djct59

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Re: Donald of Clashneach & Mary Mackay
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 05 June 19 22:16 BST (UK) »
London, United Kingdom, please, if it was 1929. :)

England ceased to be a sovereign state on 30th April 1707.