Where did the Army Surgeon disappear to?

[Valda]

The Times 18th February 1925
Not a Baronet
An Official Notice
The London Gazette of last night contains the following notice:-
Notice is hereby given that the name of Major (retired pay) Julian Philip Swindell Hayes late Royal Army Medical Corps, styling himself a Baronet is not entered on the Official Roll of the Baronetage and that no claims on his part to the rank title and dignity of Baronet has been established.
H.R. Simpson, Registrar of the Baronetage.

Regards

Valda

[Colin Y]

Valda

That is FASCINATING!

His son Claude, who married my cousins mother and was then killed in WW1 styled himself Captain The Hon. Claude Hayes! We knew there was a scandla of some kind but now it seems to come out!

Any more is welcome!

Colin

[Valda]

1871 census RG10 1365 folio 84
Stevenage  Hertfordshire   
Eliza A Willding 72  Welwyn, Hertfordshire, Head  Widow Annuitant
Sarah C McPherson 69  Welwyn, Hertfordshire,  Sister Widow Annuitant
Sarah A Toll 16  Stevenage, Hertfordshire, General Servant 
Maria E Hayes 44 Welwyn, Hertfordshire, Niece  Married Independent Annuitant
Alice S Hayes 9  E Indies, Bdgaum? Gt Niece
Meara J Hayes 7 Dover, Kent,  Gt Niece 

I think the aunts and Maria's mother's maiden name was Otway. Maria's mother

MARTHA JANE OTWAY 
Christening:  04 APR 1796   Welwyn, Hertford
Father:  WILLIAM OTWAY 
Mother:  MARTHA 

her siblings

ELIZA ANN OTWAY
Christening: 10 APR 1798 Welwyn, Hertford
THOMAS OTWAY
Gender: Male Christening: 14 MAR 1800 Welwyn, Hertford
SARAH CARSWELL OTWAY
Christening: 06 DEC 1801 Welwyn, Hertford
RICHARD SEPTIMUS OTWAY
Christening: 15 APR 1804 Welwyn, Hertford
BENJAMIN OCTAVIUS OTWAY
Christening: 05 MAY 1807 Welwyn, Hertford
CHARLES NONUS OTWAY
Christening: 10 JUL 1809 Welwyn, Hertford

Maria's baptism

MARIA ELIZA MACPHERSON SIMPKIN 
Christening:  05 APR 1827   Welwyn, Hertford
Father:  GEORGE SIMPKIN 
Mother:  MARTHA JANE 

Deaths Jun 1888
HAYES  Maria Eliza Mac P  64  Kensington  1a 101

Maria's aunt
Deaths Mar 1887
McPherson  Sarah  85  Paddington  1a 49

Deaths Mar 1887
HAYES  Patrick  79  Paddington  1a 14

The Times 6th June 1888
Deaths
On the 31 inst, at 1, Arundel-gardens, Maria Hayes, widow of Captain Hayes, late 83d Regiment, aged 64 years RIP

Regards

Valda

[Colin Y]

Brilliant Valda!

Thanks for all that well found and sorted.

Are you folowing the chenanigans of her Son Juklian - London gazette denied his claim to be a Baronet in 1925! Ergo his son Claude died perhaps believing he was entitled to call him self capt. th Hon...

Nice little scandal

Again your help is appreciated.

Thanks

Colin

[M.T.H]

Hi Colin,

I've checked the later Army lists for Julian and I found the following;

1895 New Army and Militia list

The Army medical staff - Active service list

Hayes,J.P.S., LRCPI MRCS appointed Surgeon Captain - 30th Jan 1886

Stationed (in 1895) - Malta

1906 Harts Army List

The Army medical staff - Active service list

Hayes,J.P.S., LRCPI MRCS

Appointed Surgeon Captain - 30th Jan 1886

Appointed Surgeon Major - 30th Jan 1899

Stationed (in 1906) - Dover

Unusually, there are no war services for him listed in the 1906 but they are listed in the 1915 Hart's Army List

War Services of Officers on the retired list

HAYES,Major J.P.S - Served with the Nile Expedition - 1898 (Egyptian Medal) (Sudan Medal).Served in the S. African War,1900-2.Took part in the operations in Natal,March to June 1900.Also in the Transvaal,November 1900 to April 1902.Queens medal (QSA) with 2 clasps,and a Kings medal (KSA) with 2 clasps.


Regards,Mick

[Colin Y]

Mick

Thanks for that. Its a distinguished record, for sure.

its all the more odd that he went off and claimed he was a baronet, allowing his son to call himself Capt. The Hon Claude J P Hayes when he wed and then in 1925 the Gazette published a statement wghich can only have been ater asking him to stop calling himself such, I assume.

What caused it i wonder? His Dad was Hon. Captain to the 83rd after travelling all over with them.

The Dover connection is intersting too. Some of the Hayes children were registered in Dover. I'll compare them and his dates thee too. malta too. We had assumed that the house the family lived in for some of the time (e.g. 1891) at Elham near Hythe was a family home but perhaps it was a military residence. Dover seems an odd place for a surgeon soldier? or not? Then in 1901 while he is in RSA they are in Wimbledon.

On another angle would you have any ideas where I can find out where the WW1 Internees from Ruhleben Camp in Berlin went to recover when they returned to UK, via Leith, in 1918-9?

It was while she was helping out a s a VAD that capt Claudehayes's widow (Nahneen Helen Yvonne Hayes) met my Gt Uncle Fred. That's the connection with the Hayes and the Pentlands. We think the widow may have lived in Richmond after her husband the Capt was killed on the Somme in 1916 but we know very little about her and her family. I am awaiting her marriage cert.

Thanks for your help and knowldge.

Appreciated!

Colin

[Valda]

He might not have merited the title 'Hon' but he was certainly a Captain.

Name: HAYES
Initials: C J P
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Captain
Regiment: Royal Fusiliers
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Date of Death: 09/08/1916
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 22.
Cemetery: BRAY MILITARY CEMETERY

He resigned his commission as a Lieut in the 3rd Buffs in June 1910 so he served in the army before the war.

Regards

Valda

[M.T.H]

Hi Colin,

Happy to help where I can!

It is odd that he claimed to be a Baronet! I can only think that it might have been a 'slight' embelishment of the truth due to the Honorary rank held by his father.Any award,honorary or not,would certainly have been entered with his information in the 1915 Army list,there's a mystery to be solved there for sure,that said, he did indeed have an interesting and distinguished time in the army.

With regard to his being in Dover, I'm not too surpised as Dover had a large garrison  during the 18th and 19th centuries.There would have been regiments coming and going all the time and all of them would be likely to need the services of the Army Medical Corps.

Unfortunately I have no knowledge about the Internees from Ruhleben Camp during WW1,you never know though,someone might!

Regards,Mick

[Colin Y]

Hi Velda

"The 3rd Buffs?! How so?

I had no idea he was in anything other than the 1st Bn Royal Fusiliers (City of London) Reg.

In fact I have the pension papers here from NA and he was acting captain at the time of his dath. I havent been bale to find out how he lost his life but this chat group seems to have amazing ways of coming up with that sort of surprising answers!

Now I have to find out all about the Buffs! Ideas? ;-)

and, by the way, thanks!

Colin