MI Request for Middleton

[LAH]

Hello,
 
I am searching for a marriage for Abraham Scott to a lady named Mary.
The marriage would have taken place after 1841, and before 1851.
Abraham Scott was from the parish of Water, born 1819.
Mary (last unknown) was from the parish of Middleton , born about 1825.
I have only found reference to Mary in 2 things
1- Bible records of her death recorded as Dec 5, 1857 place unknown
2 - 1851 Census sub district Pocklington, Warter Mary was 26 in this census.

In 1844 Abraham and Mary had a daughter named Sara, then in 1848 they had a son named Thomas, then July of 1851 they had Emma. Not long after that they moved to Ontario Canada, having 2 more son's Jocob Smith Scott in 1853 and Isaac Scott , in 1855. Mary past on as I mentioned in 1857.

So little records to go on with her, and until I located the 1851 census- I had nothing other then her mentioning in Abrahams bible.

Mary is my Great Great Grandmother..
With out her last name- I can not trace her family lines.

I am willing to help out anyone in the states, in the things I have access to (census). Especially my home state.. which I do not think I can say on here.. but send me a message somehow.. and I will tell .

Thank You in advance for reading this message. And for all the work that you place into gathering all the things for others on here. Who so desperately seek to know who and where they come from. With out people like you, we would all be lost.
Regards,
LAH in the States

[Stephen George-Powell]

Lah,

If you goto familysearch.org and search for Sarah Scott's birth you will find a 'Pedigree Resource File' submitted by ;Sherry L. PETERSON  1132 E. Avenida Ellena Casa Grande Arizona 85222-1107    

This says;
Sarah Scott Female.
Birth; 1/31 Jul 1843, Warter
Christening; 27 Oct 1844, Warter
Death; 31 Oct 1915, Hanover Twp,Wexford,MI
Burial;  Cornell Cemetery,Buckley,MI

Parents; Abraham Scott and Mary HOLME
Sarah married John Hudson ~1864, but I guess you know that !

If you click the 'Mary Holme' link the only extra info is that she died 5 Dec 1857. I had a quick search for her on the '41 census. <Lose all my work beyond this point and have to start again !> All I could find was this lot;
Living at Naby(?) End, Rothwell, Middleton, Yorks;
John HOLMS, 60, Colliery Labourer, Born Yorkshire (like rest of household)
Elizabeth ditto, 45
David ditto, 20,
George ditto, 20
Mary ditto, 15
Ester ditto, 13
Ralph ditto, 6
Squiers(?) ditto, 9 - odd he not listed in age order unlike the rest. Perhaps a cousin or something?

In an attempt to sort out the surname confusion I searched for Ralph in the '51 census, but couldn't find him. However there is a suitable match for George;
Living at Jackson Lane, Morley, Yorkshire;
George HOLMES, Head, Married, 29, Engine Worker, Woolen, Yorkshire - Middleton
Sarah Ann ditto, Wife, Married, 24, Yorkshire - Morley
Edward ditto, Son, 10, Scholar, Yorkshire - Beeston.
Of course this raises other questions namely;
1.If same George then how come he was living with parents in '41 and has a 10 year old son by '51
and
2.Was Sarah Ann really 14 when she had Edward?
So might not be the correct person.

Possibly you need to get in touch with Ms Peterson !

Hope this helps.

[Stephen George-Powell]

On the downside if I search for Mary Holmes (or similar) getting married between 1841 and 1851 in Leeds I get quite a few results. However I get NON for Abraham Scott or similar.

BUT if I do the same search for Bradford I get;

Mary Ann Holmes     Q2 1850  Vol 23, Page 178
Abraham Scott Q2 1850 Vol 23, Page 174

The Holmes entry is fairly clear, the Scott one less so - but I don't think it says Page 174, unfortunately.
Dash, close - but no cigar.

[LAH]

Hello-
 First let me say thanks !!
I read the notes and thinking them over, I am guessing this is them..
Was so delighted to get this information.. big hugs your way !
I will order the record , perhaps that will tell me more. I need to figure out where Leeds is compared to the Warter area ?? Got a clue for me with that ?
I do know where Middleton is (suprising me even with that ! have to admit I am not a real bright one with locations  )

About the info. on LDS records- Yes , I know Sherry- we have been in contact over the last few years. She is my connection for the Scott line.
Let me explain some things here , that may help in understanding
Abraham left a bible- with info, which I have access to, Sherry did not.
I sent her pages however since we have met. However not in person hope to one day !!!

Abraham had issues -  but the bible pages do not tell any thing about where all these Births & Deaths happened. We have located the area - of  the births,

Sarah - line direct line to me. m. John Hudson
Thomas-
Emma-
Jacob-
Isaac- Sherry's line
Abraham did leave- a good record, however with dates all but 1 has been perfect.. now had he thought to place where... I would be all   

Now here is the sticker- driving me wild here.
Bible record has Marys death Dec 5 1857 - Not WHERE
On Sarah Scott Hudson's death cert. it list her mom as Miss Pickering.
On Thomas Scott's death cert. it list his mom as Mary HOLME
We do not have Emma's she past on in the Toronto area of Ontario Canada we think. Still looking her info up.
On Isaac Scott death cert. has no parents listed
On Jacob Scott death cert. has no parents listed

So, we are doomed here.. been kicking at the wall, and feel pieces falling..but not enough.. to tell was this Mary- Miss PICKERIN- or was it MARY HOLME ??

Do you by chance have, death information access? As she past on in Dec 5th of 1857. ( According to Abrahams Bible pages) We wondered if- she was in Eng at the time??
I have done a search for Ship records, to Canada- came up blank.
However the census should have told me.. something for them in 1861..but nothing was recorded on it, then they moved in the States after they lived in Ontario for bit.. so- the records here show as- 1862 for immigration- and from Ontario, born in Eng.. not from Eng. to the States..
   Now I just this past week located, Emma in Canada's 1911 census and it showed her immigration as 1859...soooooo Perhaps Mary did pass on in England??

     We ordered a marriage record for Abraham Scott & Mary Pickering - 1842 in Sculcoats.. but , It did not give much at all - no parents, and it did not tell where they were born.  - so no answer there for us.
      Anyways- glad to get the 1841 census info on Mary Holme's and family- and then the perhaps marriage record in 1850.. for Abraham and Mary HOLME _ of which we will send for that record. Even though, it appears weak in reading- still got my fingers crossed.
   If I follow this correctly- your saying that the Marriage Record was in Bradford and not Leeds?
Is Bradford in Yorkshire ?
( A girl with a million questions- on her mind!!)

Thanks- for the information and listening, it takes a nice person to listen to another's .. what the heck questions on their family wonders) ,
Many Hugs.. your way !!
LAH

[Stephen George-Powell]

Hi,

Leeds and Bradford are adjacent cities - think Newark and Jersey City, these days it is virtually impossible to tell where one finishes and the other starts, although this will have been less so 100 years ago.

Leeds is about 40 miles W of Warter.

Which Middleton have you identified as the one? There is a village Middleton near Pickering (about 20 miles North of Warter) and another just north of Ilkley (which itself is N of Leeds) and another in south Leeds near Morley.  If it IS the census record that I've found then it will be the last one - Middleton, Morley and  Rothwell are all close together in South Leeds.

www.multimap.co.uk might help you get your bearings.

I also saw the Sculcoates entry and thought about it, but it didn't tie in as cleanly. Sculcoates (part of Hull) not too far from Warter, but quite a way from Leeds - about 60 miles.

Death records - well yes, but there were 39 Mary Scott's dying in Yorkshire in circa 1856/7/8. One was in Bradford, but it's a bit of a long shot - it's a VERY common name.

Yes the marriage I found was in Bradford, but as they're on different pages I don't see how they can have married each other.

Maybe the easiest thing would be to ask Sherry how/why she's determined that Mary's maiden name was Holme - she must have had a good reason for putting that, that seems the obvious next steps.

Must go to bed now !

All the best.

[LAH]

Hello -
  Thanks again- for your time and effort into this problem with my family.
I am so amazed that people on this message board, are getting me answers ! Even if it does not appear so to them, this board has been a wonderful addition to my search..and the people found on it have been great in answering as best they can.
Thanks also for the map site..it helps to get me where its at in location.

I thought that I had explained- about Sherry's Mary Holme's for the wifes name- we got that infomation off of the son Thomas Scott's death record. It states Mary Holmes- but for his sister  Sarah- it states Miss Pickering for mothers name. ( Her being born first, then him.. ), with Emma last one to be born in England, we have yet to locate her death record in Canada. LDS has the record of Ann being born by Abraham Scott/ Mary in Warter- which I have looked at the film for Warter , and it does not give parents names at all, Ann died about 3 weeks old there in Warter.( Abraham had a brother who was married to a lady named Ann- also lived in Warter, and that could have been their child too. No matter does not apply to this subject..sorry. I get carried away!).
Now I hope  got that is clearer for you .
Your Question to Middleton- I do not have an answer for that-
ALL we have with her name on (other then christening/birth records which just say Mary)is the 1851 census Parish of Warter, and that we know is family with her , stated she was born in Middleton age 25 . thats it . Which we just received a few weeks past on this message board. And now that you say- there are 3 Middletons ..wow.. holy cow.

To the death record- the date we are needing is Dec 5 1857.. now with that, you say there are many to be viewed (39) . I take it that - you do not see any connection to the one we are looking for, in the Index your searching.

Seeing so many dead ends, with this.. but, at the same time some hope.
39 is better the 0 in prospects. or its narrowing down.. got to look at the brighter side..
2 months back, I did not even have this much on it.

So , again- all the answers I get, a very much appreciated .
Hugs and thanks !!
niter for now,
LAH

[Stephen George-Powell]

Hi,

Yes, sorry, I 'get' the Mary Holme's link now. How can you be sure you have the correct Thomas? Ditto Sarah. Scott/Mary/Thomas/Abraham all common names I'm afraid. A tricky one I'm afraid, I'm not sure I can help much, although the balance of probabilities would indicate it IS Mary Holmes, it's hard to be sure on what you've discovered so far.

But I'm sure you knew that !

Regards

[LAH]

Hello There Stephen,

You are not just whistling Dixie with its hard to know for sure.. I am thinking- IMPOSSIBLE..from here in the states.
I have Abraham's bible- the dates match, exact..names also. I knew Abraham was from Eng.. I found his parents and his birth there in Warter.
I also located Abraham in the 1851 census, with wife Mary and the 2 children. In the bible it talks of other family members, Luke is one it gives Cheshire Court Farm. Which I have located. So I am on the right line as far as Scott's go..but its the wife/mom thats being a trouble maker here.

 I am still checking into getting the 3rd child from that marriage- she was born on July 14, 1851 -- I guess it right after the census were taken is my guess. And I am wanting to see if her mom was on her death recording. Maybe that will give me more to go with.
Soooooooooo...

Back to the original wonder Was it -Mary Holmes or Mary Pickering.. ??

Anyways-
Thanks for your effort here.. only nice people stick with a mess of things like this !!
Hugs and smiles, have a great day-
LAH

[Firefighter]

Hi LAH

I am pretty new to this site and have just come across your entry. I know it was posted some time ago but just wondered if you managed to come to any conclusions.
My Hudson line come from Middleton (the one near Ilkley / Leeds).

For some strange reason there appeared to be quite a migration of people around Yorkshire - probably work related. Although my direct line are all from the Ilkley area I have others married into the family from all over Yorkshire.

I was just thinking - could your little problem with Pickering/Holmes be as simple as she was married twice ?
Single name Pickering - first married name Holmes - get the drift ??

If you are still having problems with this line please feel free to contact me


Ian Hudson