Williams Howells and Elizabeth Daniel

[welshjo]

William Howells married Elizabeth Daniel in 1871.
(June qtr 1871 Pontypridd 11a 415)
In the 1871 census they are recorded living with her parents (him as a lodger!) in Upper Selsig Row - RG10/5383 folio 35 page 64.
But after this I cannot locate them, but believe that they may be buried in Treorchy cemetery.
Can anyone help me locate them on later census returns.

At one point I thought I'd found them - but the only ones I can see are born Aberdare - mine are born Llangynwyd, Maesteg (Elizabeth) and possibly Neath (William)

Regards

[Arranroots]

Hi Welshjo

They are hiding, aren't they?

Do you have any further info on the family?  Are we sure they both survived?  Did they have children (who & when)?  do you have the details of the marriage cert?

Hoping to help

kind regards, Arranroots 

[welshjo]

Ok - so here's what I know.

The 1871 census shows the following information
Elizabeth Howells married aged 23 Dressmaker born Llangynwyd, Glamorgan
William Howells married aged 29 Coal Miner born Neath, Glamorgan
Born are living in Selsig Row with her parents - David and Gwenllian Daniel.

The parish registers for Ystradyfodwg show the following marriage occurring 1 April 1871
William Howells full age Collier of BlaenCwm - (father Thomas Howells - collier)
Elizabeth Daniel full age of BlaenCwm - (father David Daniel - collier)
Witnesses: Daniel Daniel and Martin Morgans

Interment notices for Treorchy cemetery show the following possibilities

Grave L9 - noted on first notice - William Howells Collier No9 Colliers row (near where purchaser should be)
contains the following individuals

Name: Elizabeth Howells
Age: 3 days
Date of death: July 7 1874
Notes: daughter of William Howells, Ton Ystrad, Collier

Name: Edward Howells
Age: 4mths 15 days
Date of death: Nov 17 1879
Notes: Son of William Howells, Ton Pentre, Collier

Name: Edward Howells
Age: 6 years
Date of death: Sept 12 1888
Notes: Son of William Howells, Ton Pentre, Labr?

Name: Elizabeth Howells
Age: 66
Date of death: March 5 1915
Notes: wife of William Howells Quarryman, 2 Gelly Road, Gelly

Name: William Howells
Age: 74
Date of death: 16 Dec 1921
Notes: Quarryman, 2 Gelly Road, Gelly
Person giving info: Thomas John Howells

Also noted grave M20
Rachel Howells daughter of William Howells of Blaenycwm, Collier, died aged 1yr and 7 months on Dec 19 1876.
Purchaser: William Howells Collier, (? ??) David Howells Collier, No7 Wyndham Row, Tynewydd, Treherbert.
Next burial in this grave is Gwenllian Daniel (wife of David Daniel) aged 64 died April21 1892. Noted on interment that grave transfered - says see other side - but this is a microfiche of notice so no other side.
After this David Daniel - 69. Jan 14 1894 - information given by John Richards.
Gwenllian and David Daniel are the names of the parents of Elizabeth Daniel.

So if grave L9 is them - where are they on the census returns.
If William bought L9 - why did he then buy M20 and then carry on using L9?

Hope someone can help
regards

[Arranroots]

What a tragic little family!

Obviously there should be some trace of them on censuses - Thomas seems a good place to start, since he outlived his father (if it is his father?)  Have you looked for his birth on BMDs?

Will give ir a go this morning.

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Arranroots]

Hi - still drawing a blank here!

What family members do you believe to have survived? do you have any dates of birth for them?

I found a likely-looking William DANIEL and wife in Gelly Road in 1881, but they are also present in 1891 and it is not likely they would have got their names wrong twice!

If you have anything else at all, now is the time to mention it (please!!)

A 

[welshjo]

I don't know of any Howells', but Elizabeth had a number of siblings.
Jenkin Daniel b.c 1852/4 married Ann Jones - I've located him on each census - he had a son Thomas Daniel (and two others William and Mary who died in infancy)
Margaret Daniel - who married John Richards - one of the brothers (from memory I think it might have been John) was living with them in 1901 census
Daniel Daniel b.c 1851 - who married Mary Samuel (i think it was his second marriage)
John Daniel b.c. 1856
Thomas Daniel b.c. 1859 - believed to have died in 1863/65 in Maesteg area

I did at one point think they may have gone overseas - but the graves in Treorchy - assuming its them would appear to indicate that they stayed in the county - all be it maybe moving areas.

I also believe that David Daniel (father) had some siblings - but I have not identified any names yet.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated

[rhys]

Hello
Have a look at 1901. RG13 5015 F 8 P7
Address is 2 Gelli road.
William Howells quarryman.Wife Elizabeth
son Thomas J
Parents born Cardigan.

Rhys

[Arranroots]

Well spotted Rhys!

The full return (ref as above)

William HOWELLS H M 56? - stone quarryman - Cardigan Aberayron
Elizabeth W M 54 - greengrocer - shopkeeper - do Aberystwith
Thomas J son U 28 - coal hewer below ground - Glamorgan Ystradyfodwg
William son 24 - ditto - Glam ditto
David son 14 - Glam ditto

What do you make of this, Welshjo?

If this is all one family, that would give the following births:

Thomas J(ohn) abt 1873 - 1901+
Elizabeth July 1874 - 74
Rachel May 1875 - 76 - almost certainly yours
William abt 1877 - 1901+
Edward July 1879 - 79
Edward II Sep? 1882 - 88
David abt 1887 - 1901+

Entirely possible in terms of birth spacing. 

A 

[welshjo]

Thanks guys.
Looks like a good possibility.
Will have to look into this family further and see if I can track them backwards.

Thanks again