Williams Howells and Elizabeth Daniel

[welshjo]

I think I've found this family in 1881 RG11/5303 folio 13 page 22.
In 1881 there is
William Howells
Elizabeth Howells
Thomas John Howells
George Williams (lodger) from Cardiganshire
and
Jane Williams (mother in law) from Cardiganshire

This would appear to show that Elizabeth's maiden name was Williams not Daniel.

So it doesn't look like these can be my guys - but they probably are the grave L9 ones.

So that leaves me with grave M20 - which was transferred at some point after the death of Rachel Howells but before the death of Gwenllian Daniel.

Maybe they did go overseas or something like that - what do you think?

Thanks

[Arranroots]

Yes, I think 2 families.

Have amended the list of offspring above to reflect this.  Rachel's birth was 9 months after Elizabeth's, so it would be more likely that she was born to a different mother, but not impossible.

The Cardiganshire birthplace might be overlooked for William, but you have good evidence that Elizabeth came from Glamorgan.  The other explanation might be that your William remarried an Elizabeth at some point - possibly even as early as pre-1881?

A 

[welshjo]

Maybe - but freebmd list shows a possible marriage of an Elizabeth Williams to a William Howells in the same quarter in 1871 as my marriage of William Howells to Elizabeth Daniel - only difference is reference number.

[ems girl]

On 1851 Llangynwyd @ 46, Metcalfe Street;
David Daniel age 27 born Llanely, Carms occ; miner
Gwenllian age 23 born Llangyfelach wife
Elizabeth age 3 born Llangyfelach
Daniel age 9months born Langyfelach
John Daniel age 23 born Llanely occ;miner
Joseph Thomas age 19 born Llangyfelach occ; miner
William Thomas age 24 born Llangyfelach occ; miner
William Willaims age 22 born Llangyfelach occ;miner

David Daniel married Gwenllian Thomas apr qtr 1847 Neath vol 26 page 759.

I saw the 1881 family with Jane Williams m.i.l., but discounted them as Eliz. is married to William as Daniel and living with parents and husband in 1871.

There is another William and Elizabeth Howells living in Neath Upper 1881/91 but all born Breconshire.

[Arranroots]

Which just leaves the thorny issue of where yours went?

I have recently discovered miners in my family who went abroad to the USA from Wales for periods as short as 4 or 5 years, returning to work in England, then going back to the USA - their children were of both nationalities!  Might be worth a post on the Emigrants board?

A  

[welshjo]

The 1851 family is my Elizabeth living with her parents - I've also found them in 1861 and in 1871. It is in 1871 that Elizabeth marries William Howells and they are both listed with her parents.

A post to the emigrants board sounds like a good idea.

[welshjo]

OK - so now I'm confused.

I thought I'd look for appropriate people entering USA via Ellis Island web page - couldn't see any likely candidates but records only from above 1892 - so I would have found them on 2 census returns before then.

So next I tried Castle Gardens and found the following people arriving on 18 October 1882 on the Baltic (no other information just England as Origin)

Beatrice Howells aged 4
Betsy Howells (dressmaker) aged 35
Elizabeth Howells aged 8
Jennie Howells aged 6
Ritchie Howells aged 11
Willian? Howells aged 10

So I thought - if I can find these people in 1881 census I can try and work out if they are "mine" or not.
BUT I can't find this family in 1881 either. I've tried familysearch and ancestry - with each individual, wildcards, ages - but I must be just missing them.

Does anyone have any ideas?