Looking for info on Army units based in Ballincollig in 1866 & Harding ancestors

[cardiff Irish]

Hi Mike, I'm at the ref. library in Bishopstown, Cork next week for the 1901 census. I suppose your interests had moved on by then. I'll take a look if you require anything. I'm also considering trying to get a census rundown on the military barracks at that time too.Good luck,CI.

[Mike A]

Hi, CI - thanks for the offer.

If you happen to come across any census entries for LONG or O'BRIEN families in the Ballincollig area, I'd be very interested to see them.

One of the things I discovered while in Ballincollig is that there is probably a connection between these two families. My great grandmother was Margaret Long and the Long family may have been living in the Kilnaglory area. I think Margaret's mother was Judith "Brian" and 24 years  later (in 1864) the godparents of my grandfather's sister Eliza were Morgan and Julia "O'Brien". In 1866, my grandfather's godparents were Laurence O'Brien and Julia Manning (she may have been the Julia O'Brien of 1864).

I have to share a rather funny and very "Irish" comment that I got from the Aer Lingus check-in clerk at Cork airport when leaving there on Wednesday of last week. When I said that I was travelling from Cork to London and then on to Singapore, Sydney and Canberra  - (34 hours travel, phew!) - his reply was, "Sure, if you go any further, you'll be coming back...!"

Cheers,
Mike

[Daisypetal]

Hi Mike,

Good to hear from you, it sounds like you had a very interesting trip

The info from Ireland is great, takes you back another generation, I hope you get lot's of help with that.

Arthur Snr's army record is interesting, I wonder if he took Margaret, Eliza and Arthur Jnr with him to India, Maybe Margaret died there? You can search overseas BMDs here,

http://www.1837online.com  (pay per view)

I also wonder if he married Eliza there, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news    but I can see a birth for Arthur Coventry  HARDING Mar Q 1849 Sevenoaks, Kent, and the marriage in 1871 also has a Charlotte Maria BARNES on the same page. In 1901 I can see Arthur Coventry & Charlotte Maria HARDING living with children in Bristol.

I think if you think that the family in Lancashire are yours it may be worth getting one of the childrens birth certificates to find out Ellen's maiden name, then it would be easier to find the marriage. This looks likely to be Henrietta,

Henrietta  HARDING  Jun Q 1884 Barton upon Irwell  v.8c  p.642

Did you have any luck finding Arthur's marriage to Margaret?

Regards
Daisy

[Mike A]

Hi Daisy,

Thanks for all the info. You are not the bearer of bad news at all - quite the reverse, as you have saved me from heading off down the wrong track with the info about Arthur Coventry Harding and wasting hours of effort. Thank you!

The RC priest in Ballincollig would not let us look at the original records for ourselves   , but he searched through them himself while we were there and said he could not locate a marriage entry for Arthur Harding and Margaret Long for the period during which we thought they would have been married.

The puzzling part is that the Arthur Harding in Lancashire fits most of the criteria for my great-grandfather (i.e., born in Croydon, service with the Army, service in the East Indies, occupation in 1901 grocer/shopkeeper, etc) and if his wife's name was  Margaret it would in my mind have been pretty conclusive.

However, the IGI entry for his son John that you found earlier -

HARDING John
Birth; 24 Jul 1873 India Office Ecclesiastical Returns-Bengal Presidency...Misc...India
Father; Arthur HARDING
Mother; Ellen

clearly shows his mother's name to be "Ellen". From the census returns we also know that she was born in Macclesfield, Cheshire, not Ireland, so this can't be an alternative name for "Margaret" Long. Since it is clearly a different person, the key question if this is the same Arthur Harding seems to be "what happened to Margaret?"

I have asked my Ballincollig contact, Mrs Jordan, if she can follow up to see if there is any record of Margaret Long's death there, but I will certainly follow up your suggestion to see if Margaret in fact died in the East Indies and Arthur remarried while over there.

There is no record of that event on his service record, however, and I did not have time while in London to check the Pay and Muster books for the late 1860's/early1870's to see if there was a marriage allowance entry paid to him.

I may also follow up your suggestion and get one of the children's birth certificates to determine Ellen's maiden name, but I'll do a bit more digging first.

It is entirely possible that there were two Arthur Hardings both born in Croydon and who both served in the Army in the East Indies, but I would not have thought the coincidence to be very likely. However, the single factor that now makes me think this a possibility is that whereas my great-grandfather was born in Croydon in April or May 1835 (from his Army discharge papers), the Arthur Harding in Lancashire was born about 2 years later (if the census records for 1891 and 1901 give his age accurately).

It's certainly a puzzle, but each little piece of information that comes to light is helping to unravel it.

Regards
Mike

[Daisypetal]

Hi Mike,

Don't forget the 1881 census, his age there is 45 which would be right if he was born in Apr/May 1835 

Ellen is quite a bit younger than him, although her age changes every census , maybe they were just trying to narrow the gap.

Daisy

[liverpool annie]

Hi Mike !

I found this  .... could this be the Ellen ??

Young
Ellen
Harding
Arthur
1872
142
281

http://users.rootsweb.com/~indwgw/Bengal/BM6573XYZ.htm

Annie 

[Mike A]

Hi Annie!

Thanks very much indeed for this information - I don't think there can be much doubt that this is the correct entry for the marriage of the Arthur and Ellen Harding who are found back in Lancashire in 1891 and 1901.

The question that now remains is, "Is this the same Arthur Harding (my great-grandfather) who was married to Margaret Long in Ireland in 1866, when my Grandfather Arthur (jnr) was born? Given all the other information I was able to find in the Army records in Kew, it certainly seems likely!

The clincher now would be to find a death record for "Margaret Harding", nee Long, sometime between my Grandfather's birth in Ireland in 1866 and the marriage of Arthur Harding and Ellen Young in India in 1872.

Thanks again for the help.

Mike

[embryo]

Hello, I wish I had stumbled upon this site six years earlier! Mike A, if you are still researching this topic, you and I are very likely cousins. My maternal great grandfather was Arthur Harding Snr., born in Croydon, Collar Maker in the RA, served in Ireland (Athlone, Curragh Camp, Ballincollig, Clonmel - all at various times and periods). I have copies of his Muster Lists covering his movements from enlistment onwards. I have however, been unable to trace anything of his military record following his transfer to India from Woolwich in Dec. 1867. Our family history identifies his first wife as being Margaret Long, the marriage taking place in Ireland and his second wife being Ellen. Until following your thread, we hadn't established her maiden name, nor what and when  happened to Margaret or indeed, the fact that there was the possible first born, Eliza! Following his discharge from the Army, Arthur Snr. became a collector of tolls in Irlam and my sister has very recently come across a photo of Arthur Snr. standing outside the toll house, situated on Liverpool Road which was close to the town of Eccles, near Manchester. I have not seen this as yet but am eager to receive a copy soon. My grandmother was Sarah Ellen Harding, born Murrey Hills, India around 1876(+-) and her younger Daughter was my mother. My grandmother lived all her life close to where the toll house used to be and I live a stones throw from Irlam!
As I said initially,I wish I had found this site earlier but hope you, Mike, still return to check for input such as mine. It would be great to confirm our connection and persue it further.

[embryo]

Is anybody there? Further to my last post, in conversation with my sister recently, she can just about remember Arthur Jnr.'s half sister Henrietta who by all accounts, was a bit of a battle-axe. I assume my grandmother was given the name Ellen, with being the first female born to Arthur Snr. and Ellen Young (?). As you Mike A, we are intrigued by the lack of information regarding Margaret (Long), Eliza and Arthur Jnr.'s whereabouts prior to and immediately after, Arthur Snr.'s re-enlistment and posting to India. It has been mooted in our families past that Arthur Jnr. had emigrated to the U.S. but I feel this to be mere speculation. Making contact would be wonderful, can anyone help please?
Mike B.