Coulthard family . Gretna . Any Parish Records ?

[JeannieR]

Hi Everyone.......

Just found out , I have some Scottish blood in me !!!

But I would like to confirm I am on the right track.......

On the 1841 census , I have found ( at last ) my 5 x grandparents , living in Cumberland , they state they were born in Scotland , as are several of the children........

With a lot of searching around , in later census , I have found one of said children , claiming to have been born at Gretna , which is a bit more helpful .....

1841 census

George Coulthard / 45 / Occ . Cooper / born Scotland
Mary Coulthard / 45 / born Scotland

Catherine / 15 / born Scotland
Ellen / 10 / born Scotland

William Coulthard / 15 / male servant / born Scotland
Not sure if he is a sibling

I have  found a marriage , between George COLTART and a Mary Irving , which took place at Gretna , in 1814

To confirm this is my family , I am looking for a JANE COULTHARD (my 4 x great grandmother ) born c1818-1821. When she married , in 1842 , she was "of age "  And possibly a ANDREW COULTHARD , born c 1826-1829  . Of course , there may have been older children , born to George and Mary .

Any help with this , would be very gratefully received . Have not done any Scottish research , yet .

Many Thanks
JeannieR

[MonicaL]

Hi Jeannie

I think you might be falling into the trap on IGI of submitted v. actual extract records on IGI, at family search. There are two entries on IGI for marriages of a George Coltart on 20 Jan 1814 both to a Mary. One is a submitted record of a Mary Irving in Gretna, the other is an actual extract from the OPRs of a marriage on the same date of a George C. to a Mary Gordon in Graitney (otherwise knows as Gretna, not sure when the change took place).

The children showing to a George C. and Mary Gordon on IGI (not comprehensive necessarily), all born in Graitney (Gretna) are:

1. Jean b. 13 April 1814
2. Janet b. 16 July 1816
3. Mary b. 19 Jan 1818
4. Margaret b. 1 May 1821

Have you managed to find death certs for George and wife Mary in England?

Now, speculation on my part! There is a birth entry on 22 Mar 1789 for a Mary Gordon in Graitney to parents Robert Gordon and Jean Glending (Jean being the name of their first born daughter). There is also a marriage of a George Coltherd and Janet Armstrong on 9 Feb 1782 in Graitney, maybe George's parents (Janet being the name of their second born daughter).

Just some ideas to add to your genealogical pile!

Regards.

Monica

[audrey]

two more for this couple

COLTART   Andrew   
   
   born   1822   no date  at Graitney ir Gretna

COLTART William   
   
   Christ.   23 Apr 1824    at    Graitney or Gretna, Dumfries, Scotland
   Fath   George COLTART
   Moth   Mary GORDON
 both children

audrey

[MonicaL]

Well found Audrey! With this info, I revise my parents for George. If Andrew is their first born son, then likely parents for George are Andrew Colthart and Jean Nilson who married 18 July 1776 in Kirkpatrick-Fleming, Dumfries. Two children showing for this couple on IGI, Mary born 16 April 1780 in Graitney and Jean born 21 Nov 1788 in Kirkpatrick-Fleming.

Following through on the Scottish naming pattern, with William as second born son, there is a birth of a Mary Gordon on 18 Feb 1789 in Kirkcudbright to parents William Gordon and another Jean, in this case McDowal.

Regards.

Monica

[Boongie Pam]

Can't add further to what the wonderful audrey & Monica have given you other than to say that this area of Scotland is very very hot on the Scottish naming convention.

A common pattern of forenames...

1st son after paternal grandfather
2nd son after maternal grandfather
3rd son after Father
4th son after the father's eldest brother.

and similarly for daughters - first forenames

1st daughter after maternal grandmother
2nd daughter after paternal grandmother
3rd daughter after mother
4th daughter after the mother's eldest sister.

It's well worth bearing in mind when you are looking for other families.

Another wee snippet is that the IGI for Graitney (Gretna) only has the female's loaded.  There are boys in the records but they aren't seen in the IGI - they are on Scotlandspeople but since you have a few people at the moment probably not worth the £6 for pay per view.

I have folk from Gretna and I've found they are very mobile between Cummertrees, Annan, Dornock & Graitney even back in the 1700s as parishes are small and villages very close together.

Finally in the records of this area you will invariably find your name listed as COLTART it is quite common (I have a few Dumfies & Lochmaben!).

And finally again...

There are a few COLTARTs of Gretna mentioned at this site.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~leighann/wfp/marriages/3.html

Welcome to the most beautiful county in Scotland  
The greenest hills and the tastiest ice cream!

All the best,
Pam
 

[JeannieR]

Well Girls.......

What can I say ??

You have all given me quite a lot to work with / from .

At the moment , it is very early on , for me to be sure of anything , other than my George Couthard , was  a cooper on the marriage certificate of his daughter , Jane in 1842 . I haven't found Jane at home , on the 1841 census , but feel certain , that she was in service in Carlisle , at the time . I can't find her at all , on the 1851 , but her name by this time , was Taylor , which is a bit common ! Her husband , William , was a forge worker , who travelled around.....by 1861 , she had died , and her husband had remarried

I feel quite happy , that the George Coulthard , I have "claimed" as my forebear , is correct , and I have found a Andrew Coulthard , in later census , who is also a cooper , by trade . He wasn't in England in 1841. George and Mary had three young children , all born Cumberland , on the (1841) census  I am just trying to tie everyone in , if you take my meaning

I will have a look for George's , death certificate ....he is certainly not around in 1851 , so that should narrow the field

You have all given me something to work with , for which I am very grateful.....not quite ready to go on a search in Gretna ...yet.

Would I be correct in thinking , that the Parish Record would be at Carlisle ??

Thank you all...but any other comments , or thoughts , most welcome.....

Kind Regards

JeannieR

[Boongie Pam]

Hi,

The Gretna parish records are very much planted in Scotland I'm afraid.

Dumfries and Galloway council have an archive centre in Dumfries.  Records are also held in Edinburgh at the central lending library - free and at the NAS/GROS.

For info in 1841 there are 2 main clusters of Coultard/Coulthard in Gretna plus a couple of strays probably servants..

Family one:
Woodside Cottages - head = Walter COULTARD 49 cotton h l w wife seems to be Jannet 48 (7 kids)

Family two:
Browhouses - head = William 69 shoemaker wife seems to be Elizabeth 67

Let me know if you want more detail...

Interestingly spityting distance along the road at Dornock we so no Coultards or variants.

All the best,
Pam
 

[boswells]

I was born and spent the early years of my life at Kirkpatrick Fleming which is just up the road from Gretna.  My family had been there for at least five generations and my father 1903 - 1966 was a great friend of the Coltart family in K F.  Mr Coltart senior was the local blacksmith and had several daughters one of whom became matron of the Cockermouth Hospital in Cumberland. I got the impression that they had been in K F for some time so it might be worth extending your search to the records and gravestones there.
Alan