Ann Winchester from Brighton - Confusing!? **UPDATE**

[kizmiaz]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can offer an explanation for a little (!) problem I seem to have with my great-great grandmother, Ann Frances Morley.

Ann Frances Morley was born in Brighton in 1832 to James Morley and Priscilla Fieldhurst, and baptised on 30th December. She appears as expected on the 1841 census living with Priscilla.

For ages, I had trouble finding her marriage to the father of her daughter Priscilla, but thanks to the Ancestry BMD images, I've finally uncovered that she married Robert Henry Winchester in Lewes in Sept quarter of 1849 (Vol VII page 599).

Their daughter, listed as Priscilla Direnda, was born in 1850, and her birth certificate shows father Robert Henry Winchester but mother is listed as Frances Winchester formerly Morley.

This is where things start to unravel...

The 1851 census shows Ann (listed as Ann Winchester) living at 27 Lennox Street, Brighton (HO107/1645 Folio 241 Page 38) and she is listed as Married. Little baby Priscilla is also there. However, several hundred yards away, at 20 Boss Gardens, Brighton (HO107/1645 Folio 99 Page 44), Robert Henry Winchester is recorded as Single!

Question 1) Why was he not with her?
Question 2) Why was he recorded as single?

But wait, it goes on...

Ann seems to have totally disappeared from the records after this, and I have scoured the 1861 census using every possible search method I could think of to find her without luck.

Question 3) Where is Ann?

Robert, in the meantime has re-married, this time to Martha Hokings on 7th April 1860 and is living at 9 Kensington Gardens, Brighton (RG9/598 Folio 62 Page 30)

The only possibility for Anns death would appear to be an Ann F Winchester, born about 1834, dying in Brighton December quarter 1866 (Vol 2b Page 123).

Question 4) What is the likelihood of a very poor working class couple in about 1860 like Ann and Robert getting a divorce? If they didn't, how could Robert have re-married? And if they did, where would records be for this? (okay, that's three questions there!)

Apologies for the long-windedness. I have been struggling with this little conundrum for so long now that any tiny little clue may finally stop me throwing in the towel and assuming Ann was abducted by aliens!

Many many thanks for any help

A very confused and tired Glen

[MJP]

Hi Glen,

This is a puzzler.  Where is 11-year-old Priscilla in 1861?  I see she is not with her dad's new family - have you found her or is she missing just like her mother?

Do you feel you can spring for the 1866 death certificate?  If it is indeed your Ann you might get some clues from the address or the name of the informant...

MJP

[kizmiaz]

Hi MJP

To add to the general sense of confusion, little Priscilla is listed in 1861 as Priscilla Morley, and is living with her grandmother, Ann's mother, at 4 Lennox Street (RG9/594 Folio 87 Page 1)

What is even more confusing is that Ann and Robert seem to have had another daughter in 1857. IGI has a Jane Marsh <Winchester> born to Robert Winchester and Ann being baptised 14th Jan 1857. Where's she in 1861?

I think they'r doing it deliberately to drive me mad!! Its working!

The 1866 certificate is now top priority to prove one way or another whether this is my Ann, but I wonder whether it will even begin to give any clues about what was going on?

Glen

[casalguidi]

Hi Glen

Perhaps "MARSH" is the clue here ..................

In 1871, Priscilla MORLEY had a grandson living with her - 20 year old George MARSH b.Brighton RG10/1077 folio 13 page 19

Could this be him and your Frances in 1861

29 Mount Pleasant, Brighton

George MARSH head mar 20 carpenter b.Jersey
Frances wife 27 ironer b.Brighton
George son 9 b.Brighton
Jane dau 5 b.Brighton (possibly bp as Jane Marsh WINCHESTER which might suggest that Jane was illegitimate and that father was possibly MARSH rather than WINCHESTER?)

RG9/593 folio 91 page 22

It's possibly worth thinking about or can you eliminate this family?

Casalguidi

[kizmiaz]

Hi Casalguidi

Thanks for that census return. It certainly looks like a distinct possibility, and the Jane and Frances listed do match Jane (Winchester) and (Ann) Frances for age and birthplace. The address in Mount Pleasant was a matter of a couple of hundred yards away from Lennox Street where both Priscillas, her mother and her daughter, were living.

But it also means that Robert and Ann must have divorced some time before Roberts second marriage. I thought divorce at that time was more for the higher classes. I can understand a certain amount of "poetic licence" on Censuses (Elsewhere, I have a mother and her daughter both listed as widows, although neither had ever been married!) and Ann Frances Winchester could easily become Frances Marsh for the day, but Robert surely couldn't have married Martha Hokings in 1860 without first getting a divorce.

Would there be a record of this anywhere?

"O, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive"

(A slightly less confused) Glen

[casalguidi]

Although divorce was possible,as you say, it wasn't very likely for a working class couple - it was more than likely a bigamous marriage if the wife was still alive.  I wonder how he declared his marital status on the second marriage certificate? 

The National Archvies research guides for Divorce

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53 (post 1858)

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=260 (pre 1858)

Casalguidi

[janan]

I've had a look for Ann/Frances Winchester/Marsh/Morley in 71 but can't find her anywhere so it does look likely that she died in 1866. This looks like Jane

Jane Winchester Inmate 13 Scholar Birghton in Brighton Industrial School
RG10/1071/78 Pg4

Jan

[janan]

Can't see George Marsh senior in 1871 maybe he returned to Jersey - he's back in Hove/Brighton in 81 and 91 with a different wife each time.
Jan

[kizmiaz]

Thanks Casalguidi and thanks Jan

I think I'll have to work on the assumption that Ann, Robert and George were, shall we say, slightly less than prim and proper in regards to relationships. i will have to head on down to the Family History Centre to have a nose at the wedding list to see if I can find Robert and Martha's wedding, and see if there are any clues there.

Oh, for an easy family line!

Thanks again

Glen