M.SMYTH PEAS,CHIPS,FISH SHOP - Manchester Part One

[DS]

Hi

Would you like to see an interim progress report on our attempts to ascertain who Margaret was ?

Several voices respond in unison, “NO”.

And so you shall

We have checked the Electoral Registers for 1912 to 1915 and (unfortunately) the only person registered to vote at 5 Bexley Square was Margaret Ellen Smyth, herself. So no clues there as to other possible family members.

We have identified the most likely death registration for a Margaret E Smyth in Salford and we have sent for the Death Certificate which should give us another address to try and work backwards from (and also an informants name).

We are considering the possible will aspect but we are awaiting the death certificate first. (In case the middle name of the one selected was not Ellen, as specified)

We have looked at the censuses and identified some possibilities in 1881 and 1891 (but nothing so far in 1901, oddly).

Another Request

I posted the last (old) photograph of Bexley Square as soon as I received it, without paying much attention to it at that time. Since doing so, I have now become almost convinced that I have seen the same photograph before on this very site but I cannot recall when or in what connection.

If anyone else remembers it or stumbles upon it could you please let me have the link ?

Cheers

DS

[DS]

Another Progress Report (It might be the last one )

The Death Certificate was for Margaret Ellen Smyth who died on 17/08/1944 at 91 Eccles Old Road. We have subsequently ascertained that this is the address of the (then) Hope Hospital. The cause of death was Senility.

She was 86 years old and a Spinster of 21 Northumberland Street, Broughton. Underneath the address it says " Daughter of ---- a ---- (deceased)".

The informant was a Maud Creery of 32 Redvers Street, Ardwick, Manchester and she caused the body to be buried.

We asked for a five year search from HMCS York Probate Sub Registry and the reply has arrived today indicating that no record has been found.

Thanks again for all the help that we received in getting this far.

DS

[liverpool annie]

Is this the same place as reply # 26

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/28/28722/New_Oxford/Salford

Hope it wasn't this Maud Creery ............ 

Creery sisters Alice, Emily, Kathleen, Mary, and Maud, daughters of the Reverend A.M. Creery, who performed effective mental phenomena such as telepathy for several panels of investigators from the Society for Psychical Research (SPR). The investigators declared them absolutely genuine. Then they were found cheating——using a verbal code——by another special committee of the SPR in 1888.
      It is not recorded how, or if, the Reverend Creery chastised his daughters

Annie 

EDIT ........ OK I've been thinking .... ( I hate when I do that !!  )

But Dave said on the Directory the listing was ...

Mrs Margaret Ellen Smyth
Fried Fish Dealer
5 Bexley Square
Salford

And I realise it could have been a ruse for a single woman in business ! but how do you know this Maud Creery actually knew her ?? .... she could have been a nurse at the hospital .... a neighbour .... anything .... ( maybe even a clairvoyant !! .... sorry I was just joshing !!    )
and if the dear woman had Alzheimers .... who knows what she told them at the hospital !!

Don't give up yet .... lets try a few more avenues !! 

21 Northumberland Street, Broughton ..... that address is a Nursing home now

Residential Care Homes, Salford
Beenstock Home Management Ltd, 19-21 Northumberland St, Salford, M7 4RP
0161-792 1515
    
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01zw/

CONTRACT 31

SALFORD TRAINING PARTNERSHIP
RESIDENTIAL/NURSING/HOME CARE
SALFORD COMM. & SSD – TRAINING SECTION
CHASELEY FIELD, CHASELEY RD, SALFORD, M6 7DZ

partner

17.   Beenstock Home
19/21 Northumberland St, Salford

... I wonder if it was then ? ....... thing is - if she went into a Nursing Home ... who put her there ?? I bet she didn't put herself in there .... ! .... and where was she living BEFORE she went to live there ?? no answers ... just questions I'm afraid !! 

Does anybody have any credits for the 1901 census so we can find out the real name of the place please ??

21 Northumberland Street
Y
Lancaster
Broughton
St John The Evan
Salford North Div
Kersal

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01zx/

[Barbara.H]

In 1909 directory, 21 Northumberland St was occupied by the magnificently named Danziger Isidor, Importer of Fancy Goods.
On the other side of the square was North Manchester High School for Girls, who presumably would come out for Smyths chips at lunch time,  what would Jamie Oliver say?? 

http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/d.asp

Annie's right don't give up, you've done really well since we were trying to work out what the ads in the shop window said!

  Barbara

[bursy]

Hi DS,

First of all, Annie is correct, it is the same pub 

In the 1927 Directory, both 19 and 21 Northumberland St are listed as private houses.

They do not appear in the 1933 Directory as Residential or Nursing Homes so must still be privately owned.

Could they have been commandeered during the war, for care use, or as is in vogue nowadays, a lot of large houses being converted to nursing homes.

Regards, Dave

[liverpool annie]

She died 17/08/1944 Dave ... so by any chance - do you have access to a later directory ?? 

Also - I couldn't remember what we were supposed to be looking for in the old pub photo ....... can you ?

[bursy]

Annie
No, my latest directory is 1933.

I think we were seeing how the pub has changed over the years. ( Some might say that we have an unhealty interest in pubs  )

David, I wonder if your sister could contact the Local History again and see if any records are available for the Nursing Home, but as it is only 63 years they may not be for public viewing.

Dave

[liverpool annie]

I have to say this ... because it's been bothering me .... 

At first I thought it was because of the old photo ....  like a mirror .....

but that sign is not right is it ? .... shouldn't it be Fish Chips and Peas ??!! 

Who says it's unhealthy Dave to have an interest in pubs ? ...... must be those temperence people in Manchester !!

EDIT .... how far do the Manchester Rate Books go ? ( Manchester City Archives - Manchester Central Library ) maybe your sister could look to see if they went into the 40's DS !!

[DS]

Hi everyone

Thank you for your continued interest and sorry about the delayed response. We have been away for a few days.

I had already checked the 1901 census for 21 Northumberland Street before I posted the details of the death certificate. The Danzigers were living there then and dealing in Fancy Leather Goods. The head of the household at that time was an Amelia Danziger, Widow. Isidor Danziger, who was obviously in charge in 1909, was her Brother in Law. In 1891 the property was unoccupied on census night.

My sister does intend to visit Salford Local Studies Library again when she is able to do so. I will draw her attention to the various suggestions that you have made.

Shame that you were only joking, Annie, about Maud being a clairvoyant. She might have been able to transmit some useful paranormal information to us .

DS