Raynes of Cork

[jnby]

hi Jlo.  This is what i have for you. Good news.

MARRIAGE OF JOHN RAYNES to TERESA SULLIVAN.      11-08-1819
SOUTH PARISH. CORK&ROSS (RC) CHURCH RECORDS.                                         
ACCESS. WWW.IRISHGENEALOGY.IE

                                       THEIR FAMILY

FRANCIS       RAYNES.       DOB. 31-05-1820
JAMES           RAYNES       DOB. 07-03-1922
ELIZABETH   RAYNES        DOB. 07-12-1823
JOHN            RAYNES        DOB. 26-04-1825
HENRY          RAYNES        DOB. 25-03-1828

ST. MARYS & ST ANNES. (RC)   CORK & ROSS. (NOT ON LINE)
ALL RESULTS. IN CORK CITY. IRELAND.

THE ELIZABETH IS MY GRT. GRT, GRAN MOTHER.
BEST OF LUCK. IF YOU NEED ANYMORE HELP ILE DO MY BEST TO HELP.
 
JOHN.
 

[JLo]

Wow that certainly looks very promising. That's brilliant - thanks 

Now I've got to find some proof that this John Raynes and my John George Ryall are one and the same person...If they are then John Raynes is my husbands grt grt grandfather which would make the two of you 4th cousins I think!
Do you have access to the marriages of any of the children? I was wondering if John's first marriage might give me a clue.

I have reference to Elizabeth in a passage from a book I was sent "The Endless Adventure" which is about Cork Harbour and has a very small part about Henry in it. If you want a copy of it let me know.

Thanks again
Julie

[oreston]

Hi there,

I'm also trying to find out what I can about John George Ryall (or Raynes).

I'm descended from the Birmingham Ryalls through my mother (who's now 83). Her grandmother was Henrietta, the youngest of John and Elizabeth Ryall's three daughters. This makes me John George Ryall's  great, great grandson.

It's quite amazing, but the family tradition of an ancestor who was the harbour master at Cork has survived for over a century in our branch of the family too, although the detail had all been lost or garbled. The Raynes surname was completely forgotten and nothing of  John Ryall was remembered, with the harbour master assumed to be our direct ancestor (instead of, as seems highly likely, his brother). My mother even mistakenly believed until I started researching last year that her grandmother Henrietta had herself been born in Ireland.

Following  the link to http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch that aghadowey posted (for which many thanks) I found a death record for  Henry Christopher Raynes in Cork in 1877, aged  only 48. His estimated birth year is given as 1829, which is close enough to the 1828 date in the parish records that jnby posted (another very big “thank you” !)

As you may already know, Theresa, Elizabeth and Henrietta Ryall had a younger brother, also called Henry Christopher. He was born c 1877, so it seems quite reasonable to assume he was named in honour of his recently deceased uncle.

There’s more which I think has a bearing on this. The young Henry emigrated to Canada but eventually returned to Europe during the Great War as a private in the Canadian army (he was in in his late thirties by then and it’s thought he didn’t marry). Henry fought on the Western Front and died of wounds on 14th June 1916.  He’s buried in Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery at Poperinge in Belgium. A transcript of his gravestone can be found if you do a search at http://www.mapleleaflegacy.ca. If you click on the “details” tab, it says that he was the only son of the late John and Elizabeth Ryall of Birmingham.

The really interesting bit though is that it also notes that he “…served as Raynes.” So for reasons completely unknown he chose for that part of his life to use what we assume to be the family’s former surname (perhaps another small mystery there in itself ).

Some quite promising clues here I hope to strengthen the link between John Ryall and the name Raynes in Cork, and even specifically with Captain Henry Raynes.

Paul

[JLo]

How exciting - someone with the same brick wall to chip away at as me!!!

We had exactly the same family story about the Harbourmaster so I'm guessing that it came from higher up the tree than I thought! My mother-in-law is the granddaughter of Elizabeth Winifred Ryall (Henrietta's sister) I have a few articles relating to the Harbourmaster if you would like copies.

A very interesting 'clue' about the young Henry that you found - very curious that he should use that name, I wonder why...the mystery deepens! Definitely a link and the first one that mentions Raynes and Ryall together. A good step forward I think - well done!

Julie

[oreston]

Hi Julie,

Yes - I think the harbourmaster tradition must go all the way back to John George Ryall, who therefore seems to have been quite proud of his brother (I guess we should still say, "presumed brother" but it all seems to be coming together slowly but surely...)

It would be great if someone could unearth a cache of family letters to shed some light on all of this, but I'm not aware of anything like that surviving on our side of the tracks. My mum seems to feel that her parent's generation may have been a little careless in disposing of whatever papers might've come down from the Ryall sisters.

My mum's maiden name incidentally was Stark. She is Henrietta Ryall's granddaughter and knew her as "Grandma Stark" (Henrietta married George James Stark). We have an Edwardian photo of Henrietta and George with my grandfather Henry George Stark as a little boy, and some nice ones of Henrietta as an elderly lady (I'm guessing they were been taken in the '40s). Other than that, not very much.

I'd absolutely love to have copies of any articles you have relating to the harbourmaster, and it's very kind of you to offer (perhaps you could send me a PM?)

Thanks & best wishes,
Paul

[LaurieRaynes]

I am new to this site & found it by chance.  I am looking for any info on John Raynes 1820 who married Margaret Morrow and had 10 childen named: Whelly, Alice, Horace, Liza, Anne, Agnes, William, George, David & MaryJane. David would be my Gr Grandfather.  I have no local relatives as they were from Canada & spead out through out the US.  I was given a history of another line & it stopped at David.  I found more info on Geneology.com connecting David to 9 siblings.   Thanks

[celtic liberty]

Hi,

I came across the Raynes surname recently while doing some research at the Cork City Library.

The name had various spellings - Raynes,  Rains, & Rayns .

The information I have is from the Journal of the Cork Historical and Archaelogical Society and from an
item by the author Richard Henchion. Gravestone inscriptions of Co. Cork - St Peters church Cork.
This relates to St Peters Church of Ireland, Duncan Street  - which is now the Cork Vision Centre, the entrance is on North Main Street.

One headstone for John Rayns and family 1777.   More detailed information provided by Mr. Henchion as follows -

John and Joseph Rains were timber merchants, Clarks Marsh 1787, well documented family starting with
John Raynes Sheriff of Cork 1694.  Henry 1832-1877 one time master of Cork Steamship Coy. "Dodo" and harbour master of Cork.

Rains buried at St. Peters , Jonathan 1846,William 1760, John 1762,John 1767, William Robert 1817, 
John died 14 July 1756 , the Paul Street Cabinet Marke death reported Cork Journal the following day.

It is interesting that the earlier Rayns ( Raynes) had connections to St Peters Church of Ireland.  It is not specified whether they are RC or C of I. 

The connection to the Cork Steamship Company would indicate a connection to your Raynes. 
Some sites with more information www.corkpastandpresent.ie  www.corkrecords.com and www.corkarchives.ie

Hope this throws some extra light on the family.

Mary
Celtic Liberty 

[JLo]

Many many thanks Celtic Library this looks like really intriguing information. The Henry you mention sounds a very promising link. If they are a 'well documented' family there is hope that I might find them!

Am going to have a sift through everything I've got so far and try and match some of the new info in.

Wish me luck!! 

[celtic liberty]

You are welcome, and the best of luck with your searches.

I will keep you in mind and if I come across anything that I think might be relevant I will post it here.

Mary
Celtic Liberty