mary ellen jones ,garston,liverpool

[garstonite]

hi..can anyone advise me...helogoland was british owned when my g.g.grandfather came to liverpool in 1870`s...his name was carl freidrich satch....germany then bought helogoland,so i`m having trouble finding carls ancestors...any clues??...regards...allan

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi Alan,

Hope you don't mind me making a slight correction ...

In german, your grandfather's name would be most likely to be spelt 

Karl Friedrich, or, more likely, Karl-Friedrich
Carl is a very rare possibilty (in Germany) so that might just be the english spelling.


Possible variations of the surname:

Satch  Satsch (All pronounce Satch as in satchel) 
Satz  (pronounced Sats)
Sachs (pronounced Sax - well, almost. It's actually a gutteral ch, similar to welsh and gaelic)

Once you have a bit more information, have a look on the Immigrants board for links for searching in Germany

hope this helps
Bob

[garstonite]

thanks bob...took the spelling from 1881 census..i`ll check it out...regards...allan

[Manchester Rambler]

Hi Allan,

Could you post the details you have from the 1881 census, please?   I had a quick look, but wasn't sure which family you meant - can't see a Carl Satch at all... 

Rambler

[garstonite]

hi rambler...taken from  1881 survey in garston..now liverpool...then lancashire...carl freidrich satch 1848 helogoland....mary satch 1861 garston...sophia satch 1879 garston...adelaide satch 1880 garston .....sophia satch married william edward oakes...my surname...regards...allan

[Manchester Rambler]

OK - got 'em!

Spelling on BMDs and 1901 census is SACHT.

1901 census:
RG13/3507/185/11
21 Byrom St, Garston

Carl Sacht  Head  53  Mariner  b Heligoland (British Subject)
Mary Ellen Sacht  Wife  40  b Liverpool
Sophia Oakes  Dau  22  General Servant - Domestic  b Liverpool
Daniel Oakes  Grandson  1  b Liverpool
Mary Ellen Oakes  Grandau  3m  b Liverpool


From FreeBMD http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Marriages Mar 1877- Liverpool  8b  222
JONES   Mary Ellen           
JORDAN  Rosina        
McDONALD   Martin        
SACHT    Carl Friedrich        

Births Sep 1878 - W. Derby  8b  236
SACHT  Sophia            

Births Dec 1880 - W. Derby   8b  276
SACHT    Adelaide Elizabeth        


1881 census:
RG11/3638/152/42
9/6 Bk Grafton St, Toxteth Park, Liverpool

Mary E Sackt  Head  22  (can't read occupation)  b Liverpool
Sofia Sackt  Dau  2  b Liverpool
Elizabeth Sackt  Dau  4m  b Liverpool       (= Adelaide Elizabeth)


Carl doesn't seem to be on any census except 1901 (probably at sea), and I can't see the family in 1891 at the moment.  The marriage cert will give you his father's name and occupation, which should help when looking for him in Heligoland...   

Rambler

[garstonite]

thanks rambler....he was a seaman...regards...allan

[Berlin-Bob]

SACHT !!!   Didn't think of that possibility 

Definitely a german name (sachte =gently ), normally pronounced with the gutteral ch but in England, probably more like K. i.e. SAKT

and the SACKTs from the 1881 seem to confirm it ... so SACHT it (most probably) is 

Bob

[garstonite]

thanks bob...i`ll have to change the spelling on my tree..probably the reason i`ve hit a brick wall...regards..allan