How to find McKeand in Newton Stewart OPR

[penshurst]

It seems - form the 1841 census in Dumfries that Agnes McKeand was born in 1793 in Newton Stewart.  I would love to know her parents.

Am I correct in saying that "scotlands people" doesn't seem to have Newton Stewart records on their site?

Are the parish BDM records available anywhere for this town?

Joy

[runner]

Hello Joy

It may be that Newton Stewart was not the name of the parish then.
Have you looked under Penninghame which took in the urban and rural parts of the parish?

Russell

[stonetapestry]

Hi

I have 2 Agnes McKeands in the 1841 census on my records but niether age fts a 1793 birth.  I have a lot of McKeand info if you can tell me what you are looking for I may be able to help.

As to Newton Stewart6 all the records are listed under Penninghame.

Alison

[penshurst]

Hello Alison - thanks for taking an interest.

On the 1841 census for Dumfries Agnes is Agnes TODD AGE 48.  On the 1951 census she is Nancy TODD 58 and gives her place of birth as 'Kirk Newton Stewart'.  So now if her age is correct then she was born in 1793.

I sent for her marrige record in Dumfries hoping for a parent name and found that only the bride and groom names were listed.  Most disappointed.

I would love to find a birth record for her as this faamily was my brickwall from Liverpool until the 1841 censuses came out.

Joy

[stonetapestry]

OK What I know so far is

Agnes Todd widow of John Todd Watchmaker died on 3rd September 1877 in hospital in Dumfries.  Cause of death is given as debility due to old age.

She had been born in Torthorwald (Kirkmichael) around 1794 and had married John Todd on the 5th May 1816 in that same area.  John was a watchmaker and they had the following children.

John born in 1821
Margaret Chisholm born 10/8/1822
William 20/1/1825
James in 1827
Thomas in 1831
Agnes in 1832

John had a premises in Queensberry Street Dumfries where most of the children were probably born.  Sometime between 1841 and 1851 he moved to Broadholm Farm Kirkmichael and then died leaving Agnes living there a widow in 1851 with her unmarried children William, Thomas, David and John.

By 1861 Thomas had married Mary and had taken over the running of the farm.  His mother Agnes was living there with his own children Agnes J, Mary, Helen and William.  I think I may have 2 of his brothers living on a nearby farm but would need to do further searches to check.

The family were still there in 1871 but Agnes is elsewhere and next appears in Dumfries when she dies in 1877.

With regard to her parents.  She names Torthorwald as her place of birth in all the census records.  There are no parents names recorded on either her marriage or birth certificates and I can find no trace of her birth in either Newton Stewart or Torthorwald (not surprising given the gaps in the records).


I have traced a few McKeands to the area born around 1790 - 1800 which I cannot take any further back.  There seem to be the following possibilities -

- It is possible that if her birth certificate says Kirk, Newton Stewart she may have been a foundling placed in the care of Penninghame Kirk in Newton Stewart.  these childrenmay have been given the surname of supporters/members of the church.

-  They were Kean or McKean families who came from Ireland aound that time and hte many versions of spelling the names combined with the lack of records stops the search.

- She may actually have been born illegitimate in Torthorwald


I'm afraid that as my information centres on the McKeands I have ground to a halt on this however I am going over to Galloway during the summer to try and find the McKeands of the time she was born so if I am looking at any informaion where she may be mentioned I will take a look for you.

Also you could give me any other wording from the marraige certificate which may help.

regards
Alison

[penshurst]

Alison - you have thrown me into a state of confusion.

I started from Agnes TODD marrying James MELLING in Liverpool in 1853 - father John TODD deceased.  In 1861 Agnes born Dumfries 28 is living in Everton with mother-in-law Agnes TODD widow 72 born Liverpool

I went backwards to Dumfries 1851 and found Thomas TODD head 21, Nancy TODD 58 mother widow born Kirk Newton Stewart, Agnes daughter 18 and Joane TODD 7 visitor.  The age and the Dumfries birth strongly suggest this 18y old is my Agnes.

1841 Queensberry St there is John TODD 48 Agnes 48 John 21 born Ireland? or at least that is what I think the letter stands for, William 15 James 14 Thomas 10 Agnes 9.  Interesting mention of Ireland given your reference to Irish Mckeands. 

The marrige record I have for John Tod and Agnes Mckeand is an old parish register transcript and is only their names and a date 5th May 1816.

On the IGI is a birth Isobella Tod 26 Sep 1816 father John and mother Agnes Mckeand.  I have a record of the births you sent me said to be from the IGI but I have never found them - and this list I was sent says Joh was born 1821 Dumfries.  Do you agree with this? - if so what does the census say against his name.  There is a big gap in the birth registrations from 1816 to 1821.

Now you say Agnes is living at Broadholm farm in 1851 but no mention of daughter Agnes.  Was there a daughter Agnes, or are there 2 families with similar named parents and children especially as your Agnes names Torthorwald as her place of birth?
I feel a headache coming on .........
Why isn't this all straight forward.  I also admit that when I searched 'scotlandspeople' I only concentrated on Dumfries.

Are you as confused as I am?

Joy - but enjoying the detection and chase

[stonetapestry]

Hmmm   

There are indeed 2 families with similar names. 

However Agnes Melling clearly had a father called John Todd and if he was the watchmaker then his wife was definately the Agnes who dies in 1877 and since we know they had a daughter called Agnes at Dumfries in 1833 that seems to confirm they are the right parents.  The also had a son Thomas who is indeed the one you have found listed in 1851 having taken over as Watchmaker in St Andrews St and having his Mother and sister living with him.

I had thought from my information that when he married he moved out of Dumfries to Broadholm with his wife and children and also mother Agnes as the ages for both Thomas and Agnes in the 1861 census were a good match. But since mother Agnes is listed in the English census for that year it may not be him so ignore that    (which means also ignore Torthorwald as the birthplace).

I think the problem lies in the inaccuracy of the census information.  If we gather the various sources and go by the most likely to be accurate then her Death certificate and the 1841 census both indicate her being born around 1793/4 in Newton Stewart.  (At that time parts of the parishes around Newton Stewart were still in Kirkcubright district and I think that's what the Kirk~~ stands for now that I've looked at the actual entry)

The Census of 1861 in Liverpool has her born about 1789 which may be wrong because her son in law guessed her age!!! and the Liverpool just a slip up with the census taker assuming she was from the same place as the rest of the family.

Without doubt this is the Agnes McKeand who married John Todd and had a daughter called Agnes in 1832/3 who became Mrs James Melling in Liverpool 1853.

Unfortunately that still leaves us with no trace of her birth or her parentage.  The records for births etc in Galloway that far back are very patchy.

The McKeands I am trying to sort out also include  2 born in 1788 and 1796 who i think may be brothers and whom I think also had a sister born in 1794 but I have no name for her.  The family had recently come from Ireland  and so far I have 4 possible versions of their surname.  I am going to Galloway to seach for the parents graves so if they are related and if I find them and if they list an Agnes on the children you may be lucky but that's a lot of ifs 


Hope that makes things clearer