1871 census lookup

[Mickytom]

Bore da pawb

Looking for a David and Mary THOMAS (nee RICHARDS) on the 1871 census, hopefully in the village of Pantywaun near Merthyr Tydfil. I already have them in 1881, 1891 and 1901 and think I may have pinned down their marriage to the December quarter of 1868 in Merthyr Tydfil. There may be a Catherine THOMAS in the house also; daughter?!?!?! Any takers?

Mike T

 

[osprey]

any idea of their ages and places of birth?  Just to make the search a bit easier....

[Mickytom]

Oops, sorry! David is down on the 1881 census as 32, in 1891 as 48 (or could be 40; it's been partly overwritten) and in 1901 as 57 (or could be 51?). In the earliest census his place of birth is given as Carmarthen, in the next it's Glamorgan, Gelligaer (where Pantywaun was) and in the last Carmarthen, Llangain (or Llangairn).

Mary is a bit more consistent. In 1881 she was 33, in 1891 44 and in 1901 54. Her place of birth is given throughout as Glamorgan, Gelligaer.

Thanks

Mike

     

[osprey]

not having much luck with these two. I've found 2 couples called David and Mary of roughly the right age but neither have a daughter Catherine. Both are in Dowlais, one with sons Benjamin and Thomas and David is a coalminer all born Merthyr RG10/5397 folio 89 pg 25, and the other with daughters Isabella and Jane and David is a blacksmith all born Dowlais RG10/5398 folio 135 pg 40.

Thought I'd go backwards and found
1851 Dyfryn Hafod, St Peter's Carmarthenshire H0107/2473 folio 20 pg 3
William Thomas head m 32 ag lab b. Carm, Merthyr
Catherine wife 34 b. Carm, Llangain
Thomas son 11 b. Llangain
David son 8 b. Llangain
Ann dau 5 b. Carm, St Peter
John son 3 b. Carm, Llangunnor
Sarah 6 months b. Carm, St Peter

In 1861 they seem to match with  32 White(?) Street,  Heolwernod, Dowlais
RG9 4058 folio 83 pg 35
William Thomas head m 48 Iron Refiner
Cat(h)rene wife 46 
Thomas son u 20 Ironstone miner
David son u 17 ironstone miner
Ann dau 16 piler(?) of iron
John son 13 ironstone miner
Benjamin son 6 scholar
all born Carmarthenshire
Catherine dau 4 scholar
William son 9 scholar
both born Dowlais

1841 William, Catherine and Thomas in Danybank(?) Llangain, HO107/1382/16 folio 5 pgs 4-5.
Could be a coincidence but it is a link with Llangain. I'll have another look for David and Mary but I need more tea first.

modified - typo in Heolwernod

[osprey]

1871 Pantywaun, hamlet of Brithdir parish of St Tyfaelog Pontlottyn RG10/5387 folio 6 pg 8
David Thomas head mar 26 coalminer b. Carmarthenshire
Mary wife 23 b. Glamorganshire
William son 11 days b. Pantywaun
William Richards u boarder coalminer b. Pantywaun (sorry, forgot to note his age, but probably one of Mary's brothers?)

also Pantywaun RG10/5387 folio 4 pg 3
John Richards head mar 62 coalminer b. Gelligaer
Martha wife 50 b. Merthyr
Thomas son u 18 b. Pantywaun
Sarah dau 15 b. Pantywaun
Rhoda dau 13 b. Pantywaun
Catherine granddaughter 6 b. Pantywaun
David Williams visitor u 38 tailor b. Dowlais

so looks like Catherine was born before David and Mary married, but still possibly David's daughter as she has his mother's name if that is the correct family I found earlier. Do you have marriage certificate to check father's name and occupation? Or Catherine's birth record?

[osprey]

William Richards who was lodging with David and Mary aged 17 in 1871 but doesn't seem to be Mary's brother.

1861 Pantywaun RG9/4045 folio 11 pg 15
John Richards head mar collier 
Martha wife 42
John son u 17 collier
Mary dau 14 patch girl
Jenkin son 12 collier
Thomas son 7
Sarah dau 5
Rhoda dau 2
all born Gelligaer

[Mickytom]

BINGO!!!!!.......I think! Everybody seems to be in the right place at more or less the right time, and a lot of the children's names are duplicated in the next two generations down, i.e. Martha, William, John, Sarah, David and Rhoda. Categoric proof?

Many thanks for that.

Mike

 

[osprey]

wouldn't say categoric  - you need to double check with info on certificates - fathers' names and occupations on marriage certificate and the like but it looks plausible, doesn't it?

[Mickytom]

Looks highly plausible, but am proceeding with caution; it's actually in my nature to do so! Am currently liaising with Merthyr Registrars to see if they hold the December quarter 1868 marriage record for David and Mary Thomas to see if the fathers' details match. Caerphilly have already stated that they don't have the record and I may be faced, therefore, with the usual to-ing and fro-ing as Pantywaun records in general appear to be split between the two districts, with some disappearing into the ether entirely!

Mike