Author Topic: opinions please!  (Read 1081 times)

Offline redspookhunter

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opinions please!
« on: Wednesday 28 June 06 14:28 BST (UK) »
 :) hello whilst researching my SMITH side i have come across some confusing census returns;
first i came across the 1891 census;
thomas smith head age 86
jane         "     wife     "   73
annie        "  daughter "  37
thomas      "    son        " 16
john buttle    visitor       "  8
surely too old to have a son that younge??
then in an earlier census 1881;
thomas smith head age 75
jane          "    wife     "   64
annie        "   daughter " 27
tom          " G grandson " 4  how did he go from G son to son? he has the SMITH surname is he an older sons son who is visiting? at first thought 'annie' was his unmarried mother but in 1901 he is here;
annie smith head age 47
emily     "     neice   " 27
ernest   "    nephew " 22
thomas  "   nephew  " 25
john buttle  nephew  " 17    and who is john buttle? nephew to annie but only a visitor to her parents?? can anybody shed a bit of light on this? just some possibilities would be helpful 'thomas and jane' have older children also

martha born 1842
eliza        "     1847
william     "      1849
emily                1850
thomas     "       1852
annie        "        1853
sarah        "         1854
.<br />COTHER bedminster glos <br />WADLEY bedminster glos<br />SMITH bridgewater somerset <br />STAFFORD wexford ireland<br />

ALSO MARRIED TO KOJAK !!!!

Offline lizdb

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Re: opinions please!
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 28 June 06 14:49 BST (UK) »
i would guess that Thomas is correctly son of Annie and grandson of Thomas and Jane. I guess in 1891 Thomas said something like ' my daughter, Annie, and her son Thomas' and the enumerator just wrote down daughter Annie and son Thomas. In 1881 Thomas either described them to the enumerator as daughter and grandson, or the enumerator was a bit more on the ball and worked out the correct relationship to head of the household.
In 1901 either Thomas is misdescribed as nephew, or more likely Annie has a nephew of similar age also called Thomas - it is her dad's name and so it is very likely one of her older brothers (possibly Thomas!) also had a son called Thomas. Her own son, Thomas must be living elsewhere.
John Buttle, as her nephew, is probably a son of one of her sisters. In 1891 when he is described as a visitor to her parents I guess they used that phrase because he didnt normally live there, so was a visitor. even though he was actually their grandchild. Because Annie + Tom lived there, they gave their actaul relationships.
You can imagine the enumerator saying 'Who lives here' and Thomas senior saying 'me, my wife, my daughter and her son' and then the enumerator saying 'Any one else here on census night, any visitors?' and old tom says 'Oh yes, young John is visiting'...

Sorry - imagination getting into swing.

Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline throckenholt

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Re: opinions please!
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 28 June 06 14:58 BST (UK) »
I would guess he is Annie's son - but you can only be sure by checking out children of all the siblings of Annie to see if he might be one of theirs.

Julie

Offline redspookhunter

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Re: opinions please!
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 28 June 06 14:59 BST (UK) »
yes thanks but there is a problem and silly me forgot to mention it :-[
on thomas's marriage cert for august 1901 his fatheres name and surname is thomas george smith,so im pretty sure that he is annies nephew,so where were his parents?? could it be the older thomas or the other son william as thomas's middle name is william??
.<br />COTHER bedminster glos <br />WADLEY bedminster glos<br />SMITH bridgewater somerset <br />STAFFORD wexford ireland<br />

ALSO MARRIED TO KOJAK !!!!


Offline lizdb

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Re: opinions please!
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 28 June 06 15:01 BST (UK) »
Are you sure this is the marriage of Annie's son Thomas, and not Thomas's son Thomas(Annie's nephew)?
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline redspookhunter

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Re: opinions please!
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 28 June 06 15:12 BST (UK) »
um well the parents jane and thomas smith
that thomas was born in 1805
their son thomas was born in 1852
the other thomas grandson or son was born in 1876
.<br />COTHER bedminster glos <br />WADLEY bedminster glos<br />SMITH bridgewater somerset <br />STAFFORD wexford ireland<br />

ALSO MARRIED TO KOJAK !!!!