Author Topic: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse  (Read 39761 times)

Offline Tiffaney

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 02 September 06 08:39 BST (UK) »
Hi again Monica,
Marriage certificate exactly the same Christina Sutherland nee Sutherland so guess it must have been Sutherland. Still optomistic,
Cheers, Tiffaney
Caithness: Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Mill 
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillans
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Scott,Craigie, Sinclair, Tulloch, Spence, Laing
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp, Boone, Carter, Lee, Gill,
London:  Laver, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason,Satchell.
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Galletly
Ireland: Angland

N.Z: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer,  Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour, Bomforth,  Dunn, Galletly

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 03 September 06 13:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Tiffaney

Missed your last couple of posts - for some reason I am not getting alerts on some of my old posts. Picked up your last post by chance.

You now have confirmed in both Christina's marriage and death certs. her parents' details.............and therein lies the puzzle!

I've spent some time going back on all the details, and this where I am at:

From 1841 Free Cen, the following two families are the only possibilities that stand out in Caithness, assuming she remained there after her birth:

Family 1

SUTHERLAND William age 40 Mason  b. Outside Census County           
SUTHERLAND Christian age 40 b. Outside Census County (1841)
SUTHERLAND Mary age 15    b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Elizabeth age 15 b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Anne age 13    b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Alexander age 10 b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND John    age 9   b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Catharine age 4 b. Caithness

Address: Brehungy, Latheron-Caithness

Two issues with this family. Father is down as Mason and we have a Catherine aged 4 rather than a Christina. However, this is the family for the children of a William Sutherland and Christina SUTHERLAND With the exception of Catherine/Christina, the children match those showing on IGI (although the IGI submitted entries are not complete). I've also looked at child Ann's marriage cert in 1855 (good year for info on certs!), mother's maiden name certainly Sutherland.

I've got the family in 1851. By 1861, Catherine, a domestic servant, is showing as younger than she is and is living unmarried with her parents, all the other children have left home. Cannnot find mother's death, but she died between 1861 and 1880. There are no Sutherland/Sutherland deaths showing on SP (which I find strange given it's a common name particularly in those parts and there are lots of couples who both have that name).

Her father William died in 1880, a widower, and in the Poorhouse (registered Pauper).

Family 2

SUTHERLAND William age 40 Farmer  b.Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Janet age 35 b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Donald age 13 b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Margaret age 11 b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Alexander b. 7 b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND John    age 5 b. Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Christina age 2 Caithness            
SUTHERLAND Catharine age 3m b. Caithness

Address: Shinvall, Latheron-Caithness

The only other possible family that I can find in 1841. Again some issues, mother is down as Janet (Bruce). However, this William is down as farmer which fits the description in Christina's M/D certs. The fact that Christina's M& D certs clearly state Christina Sutherland, makes me think this is not her family.

So where now from here? If I was speculating, I would wonder whether the Catherine showing with a William and Christina Sutherland was actually your Christina. She left Scotland in 1867, I wonder if this may be around the time her mother died (can't prove it given that her death details have probably been mistrascribed and are not showing under Sutherland/Sutherland).

Next stage, I would try to find the marriage cert in Scotland if it exists of a Catherine Sutherland with those parents to at least be able to discount her/family.

Also, given that we now know that this father William died in 1880, I would check what Poor Relief Records exist for him. I don't know what the Poor Relief Records are like for Caithness and what periods are available. If lucky, and they can be found, they can provide a wealth of personal information not normally available and as such might provide further clues/confirmation.

Regards.

Monica

PS: the death details of a Christina Sutherland (parents William and Christina Sutherland) which have been submitted to IGI are completely incorrect. There is one death in 1869 of a Christina Sutherland in Edinburgh. Wrong father and mother is a Christina but a different maiden name. Perfect example of how submitted entries on IGI can just be plain wrong!
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 03 September 06 13:27 BST (UK) »
There are 8 marriage entries in Latheron between 1861 - 70 on SP for Catherine Sutherlands. These match those on IGI for the same period. Some kind person has already submitted bride's parent details. No match - no William/Christina parents show. Of the 1870 - 1875 entries on IGI, the bride's age is wrong for it to be the Catherine we are searching for.

Regards.

Monica

Remember though, this is only for Caithness!
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 03 September 06 19:12 BST (UK) »
Hi Ostler

I'm carrying on today with a Sutherland theme!

I've found your William age 6 in the 1851 Census living at home with parents Angus age 45 and mother Janet age 35, all showing as born in Berriedale.  If you PM me with an email address, happy to send you further details.

Regards.

Monica
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Offline Tiffaney

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 03 September 06 23:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Monica,
Very appreciative of your marvellous help.
On ship coming out, marriage , death cert & MI Christina's name was  always Christina but that's not to say it was originally. After she married William McLauchlan in 1867  there only daughter born 1871 was called Catherine  sooo perhaps she was christened Catherine.
Birthdate 1835-1838 16 Nov.
Will study your findings again. You may have knocked down my brick wall at last..that would be fantastic.
 :D Thank you,
Tiffaney
Caithness: Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Mill 
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillans
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Scott,Craigie, Sinclair, Tulloch, Spence, Laing
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp, Boone, Carter, Lee, Gill,
London:  Laver, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason,Satchell.
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Galletly
Ireland: Angland

N.Z: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer,  Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour, Bomforth,  Dunn, Galletly

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 03 September 06 23:31 BST (UK) »
Tiffaney

I think at this stage it would be worthwhile you following up what records there are for William Sutherland's Poor Relief. Might be lucky. Have a look at this post here on the RootsChat Caithness board re the Poorhouse that William died at in 1880: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Latheron/Latheron.shtml. It's looking hopeful, there are certainly records for the period we're interested in.

If you can let me have an email address to use, happy to send you the details on the certs. I viewed.

Regards.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 03 September 06 23:37 BST (UK) »
I forgot to say, please use the PM facility to send me an email address.
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Tiffaney

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 03 September 06 23:46 BST (UK) »
Another thought Monica after rereading your posting.
Christina married William from the home of a Mr Sutherland West Town Belt
Christchurch New Zealand on on 3 June 1868. Witness was a James Sutherland,farmer, Selwyn. Would they also have these details recorded in Scotland somewhere.
An Archibald Cook Sutherland comes up a few time along the trail in New Zealand.
Christina & Williams children were:
Willian Sutherland b.5.5.1869 d. July 1869
Catherine              b.5.51871
John                      b.29.7.1873
William Archibald Cook b.28.6.1876

Some of our relatives say she was married from the home of her father but can't find when he came out etc. which I feel was most probably before she did if he did.

John born 1873 was witness to a  wedding of a George Alexander Sutherland in 1902 Christchurch NZ where the parents of the groom were Archibald Cook Sutherland & Barbara nee Munro.
Witness John McLauchlan, farmer, Waterton.(my grandfather).
Archibald Cook Sutherland surely must tie in earlier in Scotland.
Cheers,
Tiffaney

Caithness: Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Mill 
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillans
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Scott,Craigie, Sinclair, Tulloch, Spence, Laing
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp, Boone, Carter, Lee, Gill,
London:  Laver, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason,Satchell.
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Galletly
Ireland: Angland

N.Z: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer,  Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour, Bomforth,  Dunn, Galletly

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse
« Reply #17 on: Monday 04 September 06 00:10 BST (UK) »
I've had a quick look at this site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/ScotlandMiddleNamesIGI.h
tm. In Caithness, there is only one use of Cook Sutherland (where Cook is the middle name:

BELL COOK SUTHERLAND  Christening: 12 DEC 1822 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland
Parents: Father: JAMES SUTHERLAND

My initial thoughts are that the COOK name could also be connected to William Mclauchlan. Re their children's names:

1. William Sutherland b.5.5.1869 d. July 1869 - named after Christina's father
2. Catherine b.5.51871 - jury's out, although what was the name of  William McLauchlan's mother?
3. John b.29.7.1873 - do you know who this was in memory of?
4. William Archibald Cook b.28.6.1876 - William again, which we know why. Archilbald Cook maybe related to William McL's family?

You have details of William McL's parents from his marriage cert, maybe the names on it would help. What do you know of William McL. Was he born in Scotland or in NZ?

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk