Baptism - a puzzler! (WINTERBOTTOM)

[brer]

I have an ancestor who regularly changed his name and they have included, William WINTERBOTTOM, William SMITH, William Winterbotham SMITH, William HARRISON, George WINTERBOTTOM, George SMITH, George HARRISON, and of course George William Winterbottom SMITH (!)

Please don't laugh but I am trying to find out where he was baptised!   

I do think I've got the right name now and that is George WINTERBOTTOM (which is on his marriage certificate, and on his daughter's birth certificate.)

I know that George (we'lll just call him that for now) says he was born in Nottingham and he was a Joiner/Cabinet maker (he's on the censuses but living in Manchester but consistantly says Nottingham!)

So...George WINTERBOTTOM, born in 1802 OR 1811 in Nottingham.

Would be overjoyed if someone would try to find him for me.

Many thanks

~ Claire

[Jane Eden]

Hi

Have you parents or witnesses on the marriage certificate? Did he live in Nottm then? Do you have a parish in Nottm for him? Any other information?

Was his daughter born in Nottm or Manchester? Who was his wife? Anything else?

Do you know Nottm?

I have had a quick look on the NFHS CDs but cannot find anything. We need to narrow it down but I need all the information to do this.

Jane

[brer]

Hi Jane

ok - what do I know -

My Great Grandmother was Harriet Ann WINTERBOTTOM.   She was born in Dukinfield, Cheshire in 1880 to John WINTERBOTTOM (1843) and Eliza BRUCE. (1842)

John and Eliza married in 1863 in Manchester- John gives his father as "William Winterbottom SMITH - Cabinet Maker" and there's a baptism for John on the IGI which I've checked at Manchester Cathedral giving him as "John Winterbotham SMITH" and says his parents were George Winterbotham SMITH and Martha.

In 1871 Eliza and their 2 children were living with her parents and she says she's married BUT that she's Eliza SMITH and the children are SMITH too.  I cannot find John on this census.

So now to Mr Changes His Name a Lot (but thankfully not his address!)

1841
William SMITH - Joiner - age 35 - New Islington, Manchester Unmarried - No

1847 George WINTERBOTHAM marries Martha SEVERS in Manchester.  George's father was "John WINTERBOTHAM - no profession- in 1841 Martha (who's younger) is living next door to William - Witnesses: Abram Jackson, Daniel Scott (?)

1851
William SMITH - Cabinet Maker - 50 - Lodger (but married) - Rochdale, Lancashire - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire

1851
Martha WINTERBOTTOM - 33 - Shop Keeper at 6 New Islington, Manchester - with children John and Isabella*.

Isabella's birth cert gives parents as George William Winterbottom SMITH and Martha SEVERS.

1861
William WINTERBOTTOM - 59 - Joiner - Nottingham, Notts living with Martha, John and Isabella.

Martha's baptism is on the IGI too (but I've not managed to verify it yet and her parents were John and Isabella SEVERS)

and I've not managed to find them after that.

Someone on the Rootsweb mailing list has just sent me this too -

"On the notts baptisms cd, there is a William winterbottom c 22/11/1807 in Greasley to John and Hannah. They had about nine children but some were listed under Winterbotham. There were very few George's and none in the dates you mentioned."

quite a quandary huh??

Many thanks

~ Claire

[Jane Eden]

Hi Claire

What a mess!

Firstly: NFHS CDs are excellent but they do not cover every parish in Nottm.

Search: Winterbot* 1790-1820 Baptism

N-M 18/11/1793 George Winterbotham to John and Sarah
MAN 24/10/1796 William Winterbotham to John and Ann
GRE 22/11/1807 William Winterbottom to John and Hannah

GRE John and Hannah also had:

3/3/1805 Joseph
1/2/1795 Sarah
19/2/1797 John

Search: Marriages Winterbot* 1780-1798

N-M 1/5/1787 John Winterbotham and Sarah Haskey
GRE 26/10/1789 John Winterbotham and Ann Shaw
NUT 2/10/1794 John Winterbottom and Hannah Marsh

Nuthall is not far from Greasley so they could have moved there when married.

I looked at the marriages to see if she was a Smith.

Jane

[Jane Eden]

Hi Claire

Search: Marriage Winterbot* (groom) Smith (bride)

WAL 24/02/1734 John Winterbottom and Elizabeth Smith

This is the only result. No Smith grooms married a Winterbot* bride.
Baptisms for Walesby are not on the CD.  I was looking for where the name Smith came from. These could be your Will/Geo grandparents.

The Geo/Will bit could be that Geo was his first name but he was known by his second name.

Jane

[brer]

WOW!



that's some sleuthing!

Most interesting on the SMITH/WINTERBOTHAM marriage too - it's on the IGI too though the year is 1733 on there.

I'm not sure how I am going to be able to figure out which one George/William is though - the only thing is that I think if it *is* one of the three it's most likely to be - GRE 22/11/1807 William Winterbottom to John and Hannah, just looking at the baptism date - I think the others might be too young to be our man.  Any ideas?

You're right - it IS a mess!

It's only the address of 6 New Islington, Manchester that's consistent, and that has helped me find the information this far - it's been mind boggling as I am sure you can see!

Thanks for this Jane - it's so useful to have someone who knows a bit about the area too - I live in England but only have George/Wm/Whoever(!) in Nottingham so know very little about how it works there re parishes etc.

Thank you!

~ Claire

[Heather D]

I hate it when I only have a negative to add to a thread!

The William born Greasley 1807 married a Maria Lilley in 1835 and they were still together in Greasley as late as 1881. So I'm afraid that seems to rule that one out

Heather

[brer]

Hi Heather

Please don't worry about the negative - it strikes one off the the list and one step closer to the true one!



It's all good!!

Thank you

~ Claire

[brer]

I just got this off an email list too -

Mary c21/4/1792 - John and Ann
Sarah c1/2/1795
John c19/2/1797
John and Aaron c2/6/1799
Mary c 22/8/1802  - John and Ann
Joseph c3/3/1805
William c22/11/1807
Ann 16/9/1810
Robert c19/6/1814 - John was listed as a labourer at this stage and they
resided at Kimberley.

poss marriages -

John Winterbotham m Ann Shaw 26/10/1789 in Greasley

John Winterbottom m Hannah Marsh 2/10/1794 in Nuthall.

So we know now that it's not the right family....hmmm....now what???

Thanks

~ Claire