Thomas Williams

[jstomlin]

Given the name, I know this is like looking for a needle in a haystack, but here goes!

I'm trying to establish a gg father called Thomas Williams.

My wife's great g'father was Thomas Williams, whose father had the same name (per TW junior's 22.12.1898 marriage cert to Jane MacDonald - junior was a widower per the cert).
I have TW Junior on the 1901 census ( RG13 - 5065 - page 11 ) in Cillybebyll, age 40.  Living with him are Elizabeth (age 12) and Thomas John (age 10) from his first marriage.
On the 1891 census, Jane is in Rhos with her parents ( RG 12 - 4469 - page 23 - House 160).  In house 158, there is Thomas Williams, age 30, married to Margaret, with Elizabeth aged 2 and Thomas John aged 4 months!  I think this is likely to be the Thomas Williams Jane married.

My problem is finding Thomas Williams junior further back than 1891, and thus his parents, including Thomas senior.  On his marriage cert, his occupation is Colliery Winding Engine Driver, and his father's is Coal Miner. 

I have found a Thomas Williams (age 21 - engineer) living with his parents, including Thomas Williams (Banks man) which seems a good fit - but how can I verify this?  The ref is RG 11 - 5347 - house 152, in Llanguicke. 

Thomas Williams is a common name to say the least so there are endless GRO possibilities.  Any lateral thinking would be appreciated.

Perplexed Jules

[cardiff]

Please write out the info= full name date of birth(year) place of birth (what is given on the census) to  much info please break it down into each generation.
Sorry will try to help
cheers cardiff

[jstomlin]

Let me know if you need more than this?

1901 - RG13 - 5065 - page 11.  There is no address, just House ref 64, in Cilybebyll, parish of St John The Evangelist.
Thomas Williams (Thomas Thomas Williams and widower on 1898 Marriage Certificate)
Age 40, born in Warring Coed, Pont?, Glam per 1901 census.
Wife = Jane Williams  (maiden name McDonald on marriage cert)
Age 27, born Rhos, Cilybebyll
Children - Elizabeth (12), Thomas John (10) (both born Rhos), William McDonald (adopted - 9), William (2) (both born Llaig Cefn Parc (?), Glam).

1891 - RG 12 - 4469 - page 23 - House 160 in Rhos
Jane MacDonald
Age 19, single, living with parents William & Mary MacDonald.

1891 - RG 12 - 4469 - page 23 - House 158 in Rhos
Thomas Williams
Age 30, born Llanguicke
Wife = Margaret
Age 23, born Carnathen, Bettws
Children - Elizabeth (2) (born Bettws), Thomas John (4 mths) (born Cilybebyll)

1881 - RG 11 - 5347 - house 152, in Llanguicke
Thomas Williams
Age 21, born Llanguicke
Parents
Thomas Williams - Age 50, born Llanguicke
Margaret Williams - Age 49, born Llanguicke
Siblings - John, Margaret, Elizabeth, Hannah and Jeremiah

I'm trying to prove Thomas Williams junior in 1891 and 1881 are the above.  Given the children in 1891 and the fact he is a widower, I think that's a good fit.  But I can't work out how to go back further than 1891.

Any thoughts?

Much appreciated,  Jules

[Fisherman]

Jules,
Check mothers name. I have it as Rachel not Margaret.
The address given for the family on 1881 is  Wauncoed Cottages Pontardawe.
Is this the same as on 1901? (notice similarity)

On 1901 birthplace for William McDonald & William (2) is Graig Cefn Parc.

All the places you mention: Cilybebyll, Llanguicke, Rhos and Craig Cefn Park are all in the Pontardawe area so there is a good chance that it is the same family group.

Fisherman

[Fisherman]

I have Glamorgan 1851 so did a check for Thomas senior.
The only match I could find:

Alltwen, Pontardawe

Address  Tanygraig

Ann   Williams          Head W 60  Colliers Widow
William     ''              son    U 27   Collier
Ann         ''               dau   U 23
Thomas Williams      son    U 21    Farm Labourer

Fisherman

[jstomlin]

Hi Fisherman
Yes - my mistake, I meant Rachel, not Margaret.
There is no address given in 1901 - just Rhos.
I know Alltwen features in the family (20th century), so I guess it is local too?
Any advice re finally proving Thomas / Rachel are Thomas Junior's parents?  Given the common name, that is a lot of certificates to order!  Could I ask a favour - how many Thomas Williams are there that fit junior's profile in 1881?
If I get Junior's marriage certificate to Margaret, I might get a sibling's anme on the certificate?  Do you think it's worth a punt?
Cheers  Jules

[Fisherman]

Jules,
There are 81 Thomas Williams  born in Wales in 1861 that are on the 1881.
I'll narrow search to Pontardawe area.

Chris

[Fisherman]

Jules,
He is the only one that I can find that fits the bill on 1881.

Jane in 1881.
Living with parents William (Engine Driver, Coal Mine) & Mary in Rhos, Pontardawe.
Siblings:
Ellen 16, Thomas 14 (Haulier in Coal Mine), Hannah 10, Annie 6, Jane 8 & Joyce 2.

You are right Alltwen is near by, it is between Pontardawe & Rhos.

If you can discover addresses pm me your e-mail and I will photograph them for you if they still exist.

Fisherman

[jstomlin]

Thx for that.
How do I send you my e-mail address (it doesn't show on your profile?)
Cheers  Jules