Ada Mary Duncan Dives c1875 - Brick Wall !!!

[siobhank13]

Hi,

Hoping someone can help me with a brick wall that I have come across with the above lady.

Details I have are:

14th November 1900

Ada married Henry Sudbury in Gorleston, Norfolk. Ada's age is shown as 25. Residence at time of marriage Islington. Father's name and occupation - George Dives.  Distiller.

1901 census

Ada and Henry living in Gorleston with Henry's son Frederick from previous marriage (to Ellen Vandervoren).  Henry was born in Cloat Lane, London.  Ada's place of birth is simply listed as London.


***

So far I have found no other trace of Ada [or her father] in any other census or in the GRO indexes for her birth.

Is anyone able to suggest a next move ? Any help would be appreciated.

Siobhán

[jorose]

There's an Ada Mary Duncan registered in the first quarter of 1876, Hackney. I wonder if she was illegitimate?

Even more interesting, there's a George Dives in the 1881 census, aged 65, a widower, b. Nutfield, Surrey, in West Ham.  His address is Distillery House No. 5, Short Wall (his occupation is Corn Miller).  He has also an unmarried daughter, Helen Dives, aged 39, in the household.

Perhaps either George Dives was the father of Ada, or he was her grandfather - and not knowing her father's true details she used those of her grandfather when she married.

[Sisterjane]

Right Siobhan, Heres my theory,not quite sure where im going with it but Here goes anyway

1881-Shoreditch

Diver

David 45 head b Norwich      Carpenter
Maria 39 wife b Spitalfields
Elizabeth 13 dau b Bermondsey
Arthur 9 son b Bethnal Green
Ada M 5 dau b Shoreditch

1881-Hackney

Sudbury

Henry 37 head b Hackney      Umberella Furrile Maker
Ellen 35 wife b Hampstead
Henry 8 son b Bethnal Green
Ellen E 6 dau b   "            "
Emile 4 dau b      "          "
Louisa 2 dau b    "            "

Now moving on to 1901

Gorleston-Norfolk

Henry Sudbury 57 head b London     Umberella Furille Maker
Ada     Sudbury 25 wife b London
+ the kids

Well I think these 2 Adas could be the same 
The ages of Henry and Ada are exacly the same as in 1881
Shoreditch and Hackney are just a stones throw away from each other and the Norfolk connection is there.

Oh well you did say ANY help.......

Joe

[Sisterjane]

Mmmmmmmm.....Maybe Jorose has it and my theory is just that......a theory

Joe

[jorose]

The Ada M. Diver is probably 'Ada Maria Diver', birth registered Mar 1876 Shoreditch, death registered Mar 1882 quarter Shoreditch aged 6.

I'd like to see what occupation George has in other censuses to see if my theory holds up (or maybe he had a son who was also George?), but in 1871 he is in Essex I think so I don't have access.

[siobhank13]

Thank you both for the information.  I did find that George Dives in the census but discounted him due to his age - perhaps that was a mistake.  I'll try and find him in other the census to see if any more info surfaces.

I might also order the birth certificate of Ada Mary Duncan even if it is just to discount her from my search.

I also found another possibility last night in the 1891 census -

Ada Daves born abt 1876 in Battersea.  Family living in Scarborough. Mother is Amelia Head (born Bethnal Green), married, living on own means.  No father recorded. But other children are born in West Ham, Battersea and then the last one in Southport.

Siobhán

[jorose]

Looking at that 1891 census, Amelia's on the 1881 census under 'Davis', living in York, husband is Edward, first three children born West Ham, next two, including Ada, born Battersea, last one born Southport.  Although I do wonder if Dives wouldn't often get mistranscribed under Davis or Davies, it being a fairly unusual surname and Davis being more common.  I still can't spot my theoretical 'Ada Mary Duncan/Dives' on the 1881, although there appears to be one in 1891, born London about 1876, living in Essex.

Never underestimate the old folks!  A friend of mine has a great-grandfather who died in his 80s, after falling out of the window of a brothel (his third wife was apparently after him at the time, hence the climbing out the window). 

Even without a twist like that, I think putting the grandfather as the 'father' on a marriage certificate where the father wasn't exactly known was fairly common, especially if George had some part in helping raise her.  (The other tricks being mainly: putting the same name down as your spouse did, putting the right first name but the wrong last name, or using the stepfather's name)