My brick walls!

[Highweek]

I have been researching my family history for may years and reading posts here for a long time and I wondered if anyone could help me with any suggestions to help me through my brick walls, it’s a bit complicated!

My Great Grandfather was born Harry Albert Randolph Tolmie on 7th November 1880 in Lymington, Hampshire, to John Randolph Tolmie and Priscilla Honor Tolmie (formally Cartridge.)  I have information from the 1881, 1891 and in the 1901 census he was a photographer.  Harry married Beatrice Ellen Woodman on 22 September 1903 in Southampton and he was still a photographer.  My Grandmother was born in April 1907, and on her birth certificate his occupation was Ships Cook – a bit of a drastic change from a photographer in four years! 

My Father tells me that he recalls being told that Harry was in the Merchant Navy and died in San Francisco, he thinks whilst my Grandmother was very young, if born at all. It is believed that Harry wasn’t bought home because he died on land and the family could not afford to bring his body home.  This is my first wall – finding out if any of this is correct.  I understand it may be possible to find out by visiting the PRO to find a reference of his death overseas and then maybe apply for his death certificate?

To be able to find out any of this you obviously have to use a surname and this is where my other walls come in!!

Up until 1907 when my Grandmother was born Harry’s surname was Tolmie, but for some reason on her birth certificate the Tolmie is missing and Randolph has been used as the surname instead, for Father, Mother and child.  This may have something to do with that when Harry was born he was registered as Tolmie, as was his Father John Randolph Tolmie, but then his seven brothers and sisters that followed just had the surname Randolph, no Tolmie. Why did he drop the surname he was born with and married and used and how could he just change it?

So, I am looking for Harry Albert Randolph Tolmie / Randolph /  Randolph-Tolmie.

Confused – it’s taken a while to sort this out to be able to put it into words!  Any thoughts?

[PrueM]

Hello Highweek, and welcome to Rootschat! 

Can you give us the full references for the census returns you've found?  It would be useful to have a look at the entries.

The GRO has a page about ordering certificates for overseas events.  Here is the one for death certs:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/deaths/obtainingdeathcertificates/howtoverseas.asp

Rootschatters are (in)famous for being able to track down very elusive ancestors, so I'm sure we'll be able to find your Harry 

Prue

[Highweek]

Dear Prue

Thank you for your welcome, it's taken a long time to pluck up the courage to send this post, which has had be stumped for ages! 

I have always ordered certificates from the GRO and assumed that a visit to the PRO was necessary for the overseas reference, so thank you for the link.

The census ref's are as follows:

1901 - RG 13/1054 - pages 31 &32 (John Randolph Tolmie (Father) is missing from this one)

1891 - RG12/913 - page 29

1881 - RG 11/5317/89 page 1 (But this is unreliable as the names fit but the places of birth don't - Harry was born in Lymington, Hampshire - not Scotland, John as far as I know was born in Scotland, not Ireland and Honor was Priscilla Honor and I have no record of Lillia! This info is from the IGI)

Thank you for helping to look for my elusive Harry and his even more elusive Father John! 

Julie

[PrueM]

Hi Julie 

I am struggling to find your lot on the census, even with the refs you gave...the 1881 reference doesn't seem to work on Ancestry.co.uk, and the others have either a folio or page no. missing.  When I search by names I get no hits, or incorrect ones. 

So...could you give me birth dates/years for everyone, and birth places as given in census that you've found. 

I know you're trying to track down Harry after 1901, but all these other bits and pieces of info might help us track forwards later, if that makes sense. 

Prue

[Highweek]

Dear Pru

I have copies of the images here which I am trying to post but it says they are too big to send here.  I have emailed them before no problems, I am concerned I am causing you a lot of unnecessary problems and it isn't even your family!!

1881 Wales (forgot it was there!) RG 11/5317 and it us under the name of Randolph and they are in Merthyr Tydfel.

1891 England - Randolph - living at 38 York Street, Southampton

1901 England - Randolph - but head is Priscilla H Randolph as John is missing

Hope this helps, I do feel 

Julie

[PrueM]

That's OK Julie, I was searching for Tolmie wasn't I   

Now that I've got the good oil, I'll set to working out who's who and hopefully we can then find out what hapened to Harry 

Prue

[Highweek]

Pru

Easily done, you have to look for both, cos Harry was born and married as Tolmie, but in the census he was Randolph!

Doh families 

Julie