Lookup request PLACE surname Newcastle upon Tyne

[aussiemel]

I am seeking birth/christening and/or parents names and census details on the following PLACE individuals. They married at St John's, Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland.

My ancestor is

Isaac PLACE bc 1806-1811 = Mary Ann Jordison m. 31 Aug 1834 at St John, Newcastle upon Tyne, after this they lived in Felling Shore Gateshead Co Durham. 3 sons born there. (I have info on them already) More interested in where Isaac was born, siblings and parents details

Likely brothers Ive found for Isaac also had marriages at St. John Newcastle Upon Tyne.
11 Oct 1831 William Place = Elizabeth Trotter
30 Jan 1832 Thomas Place = Frances Miller

Isaac named his sons William Thomas and Isaac so I believe these marriages are likely his brothers. I would like any info on these couples. On the IGI Isaac's marriage to Mary Ann Jordison has his first name incorrect as George. Date and spouse name are correct.

Extra info: Isaacs son was buried as Methodist later in Australia.

Any info on the PLACE surname in the Newcastle upon Tyne or Gateshead area would be greatly appreciated
Thankyou to anyone who can help me in advance!
Melanie
Perth WA

[Michael Dixon]

Melanie,

Just an interesting angle on you mentioning a Place Methodist burial in Australia.

It seems likely that the family was methodist, but married in Anglican/Church of England parish church(es), because the law of the land forbad them to marry in other than "the established church"

(This applied to all religious denominations, other than Quakers and Jewish faith)

This legislation was removed from 1837, allowing folk to marry legally in their "own" churches and Register Offices.

Michael Dixon
Newcastle

[janmoore]

Are you interested in these names from SOUTH SHIELDS (1851 index)? South Shields is reasonably close to Gateshead - less than 10 miles?

HO 107/ 2399

John 42, Ann 46, John 14, esther 11, Ann 5 folio 195

Esther 72, fol 193

Mary 80 fol 341


HO 107/ 2400

Thomas 60 fol 219

[aussiemel]

Thanks Michael that is interesting, I didnt know that about the Methodists of that time.

Hi Jan, I dont know if any of those individuals from South Shields are connected. None of the names except the Thomas Place and Mary Place reoccur in the Place family line in later generations.

 I was hoping to find the couples listed below on the census of 1841 1851 or 1861 in the Newcastle ot Gateshead area's but Im actually not sure where they were at those times... I believe there was a Thomas aged 32 and a Frances Place aged 29 in Gateshead in 1841 but I dont know if these two individuals lived at the same address or were a couple or if they had children.. I dont have access to the records I need unfortunately.

[Michael Dixon]

Census 1841
Piece 297 Book 4 Folio 27 Page 11

Felling, Heworth, Co Durham.
Thomas Place, 32 yrs Joiner
Frances Place 29
Mary Place 5
Anna Place 3
Frances Place 1
Margt T Kenedy 18 (might be "Svt" for servant)

No relationships recorded on C1841 and ages for those aged 15 and over, rounded down to units of 5 yrs.

For birth places the enumerator simply recorded whether folk were born in "this" county. He ( no female enumerators until 1891 ! ) recorded that the above 6 were born in County Durham ( but see below)

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C1851 19 Peel St, Westgate, Newcastle, Northumberland
Piece 2404 Folio 328 Page 73.
Head Thomas Place 42 House Carpenter born West H???, Co Durham.
Wife Frances Place 39 b. Howdon Pans ( this within "ancient" parish of Wallsend) Northumberland.
Dtr Mary Place 15 b.Newcastle
Dtr Anna Place 13 b.Newcastle
Dtr Frances Place 11, b.Gateshead
Dtr Ann Place 9, b.Gateshead
Margaret ? Place, b. Newcastle

Initial of Margaret's second name could be "S"

Ancestry had transcribed the Place surname as "PLAN"

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Census 1861
3815-96-20
!6 Ord St, Elswick, Newcastle
Head Thomas Place, 52 House Carpenter, b.West Herrington
(south-West of Sunderland)
Wife Frances Place 49, b. Howdon Pans, Northumberland
Dtr Mary Place 25 b.Newcastle
Dtr Anna Place 23 b.Newcastle
Dtr Frances Place 21 b. High Felling
Dtr Ann Place 19, b High Felling

( C of E parish for Felling was Heworth)


Michael Dixon
Newcastle

[aussiemel]

Thanks so very very much for doing this lookup for me Michael.

Although not yet proven, I am thinking this Thomas was the brother of Isaac (our ancestor who migrated to Australia)
Thanks again for taking the time to look this up for me!
Kind Regards
Melanie

[Michael Dixon]

Melanie,

You mentioned the names that the Places chose for their children.

Be aware that many English people ( and Irish and Scottish, etc) named their children to set conventions.

Identifying what "rules" they were following, can help us identify parents of parents.

For example, if Thomas and Frances were following the "English Naming Pattern" ( loads of web sites on topic.. google "naming pattern" ) they would have named their first dtr after Frances's mother, second dtr after Thomas's mother, third dtr after the child's own mother ( which they did Frances after Frances"

But early deaths of children that we unaware of, spoils our "view" of the pattern as used by parents.


The ENP rule was first son of a couple should be given the name of the child's father's father. Second son to be called after his mother's dad. Third son named after his own father.
Fourth son to be named after his father's oldest brother. Fifth son after his mother's oldest brother. And vice versa for 4th, 5th dtrs.

Assuming no deaths of young children in the family of Isaac and Mary Ann Jordison, (Isaac, William Mary), then Isaac is the name of Isaac's own father, William is name of Mary Ann's dad, and Mary is name oif Mary Ann's mother.


A little observation on fam of Thomas/Frances... they were excellent on recording/keeping/remembering all the ages of the family members. Maybe Thomas's job of carpenter/joiner required him to be literate etc ( measuring and recording measurements etc) and he used his skills for family records.

Next time I am in Tyne & Wear Archives I will peep at marriage record hoping to see signatures rather than "x" marks.

Michael Dixon