1841 census Potts Cramlington

[Michael Dixon]

C1841 836/16-2- ?
North Hirst Farm*
Woodhorn
John Johnson  43 Ag Lab Y(es, born in this county)
Mary Johnson 42 Y
Isabella Johnson 10 Y
John Johnson 8 Y
George Johnson 6 Y
Mary Johnson 3 Y

* Modern-day Ashington is made up of ancient Hirst (eastern part) and the much younger Ashington ( west of the railway line, the station was originally called Hirst, then later Ashington). If you look at site  communities.northumberland.gov.uk
enter Ashington, from left-hand menu choose Plans...
click on 1828 map... you will see North Hirst Farm, just west of Woodhorn village........... also if you want to see how the coal industry turned Ashington into "the biggest mining village in the world", go into Ashington's "Ordnance Maps"

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C1851 2418-132-10
Mitford Heads, Mitford
Head John Johnson 52 Ag Lab, b.Mitford
Wife Mary Johnson 50.b. Horton
Dtr Isabella Johnson 20 b.Woodhorn
Son John Johnson 19 Farm Lab. b. Woodhorn
Son George Johnson 17 Farm Lab b. Woodhorn
Dtr Mary Johnson 13 b. Woodhorn
Robert Johnson 6 b. Widdrington

** In early censuses, enumerators tended to enter "birth-parishes" rather than " bith places"

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C1841 820/19 42-2
Lysdon, Seaton Delaval
John Johnson 40 Ag Lab N(ot born in this county)
Martha Johnson 40 Y(es born in this county)
John Johnson 12 Ag Lab Y
Isabella Johnson 9 Y
Ann Johnson 7 Y
Mary Johnson 5 Y
Sarah Johnson 3 Y

This enumerator followed the instructions to round down to units of 5 yrs, all people aged 15 and above.  The chap who did Hirst 1841, did not.

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C1851 2402-426-29
Beacon Lough, High Fell, Gateshead
John Johnson 52 Ag Lab, b. Durham
Wife Martha Johnson 53 b. Nbld
Son Robert Johnson 22 Ag Lab,b. "
Son John Johnson 20 Blacksmith b. "
Dtr Bell Johnson 18 b. "
Dtr Ann Johnson 16 b. "
Dtr Mary Johnson 14 b. "
Dtr Sarah Johnson 12 b. "
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C1861 3806-53-8
Sherriff Hill, Gateshead
Head John Johnson 61 Labourer, b. Washington Co Durham
Wife Martha Johnson 63 B. Uglam (this should be, I think, Ulgham, Nbl)
Dtr Ann Johnson unmarried 27 Dressmaker b. Mitford Nbl
Dtr Sarah Johnson u/n 23 b. Mitford
Son*** William Johnson 4 b. Bishop Middleham Co Durham
Son*** John Johnson 1 b. Coundon


*** clues from later census indicates that at least the 1 yr old John was son of Sarah

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More later..............

Who were the witnesses to the Potts/Johnson marriage ?



Michael Dixon

[jackspratt]

Hello Michael

Before I go any further I must express my thanks once again for you kindness and generousity (and good humour) in helping me out with this. I can't tell you how glad I am that it was you who responded.

The 1861 Gateshead census almost convinces me that he's not my man. I just wish Ann and Sarah hadn't been born in Mitford.

The Seaton Delaval John's brother, George, married a Jane Cook who was born in Ulgham, which doesn't help. In 1881 he shows himself to be a joiner born in - Morpeth. But looking at Google Earth it's only seven miles from Woodhorn to Morpeth and if he spent much of his early life at Mitford that would seem reasonable - to me, anyway. 

I imagine that the 1901 census in which John said he was born in Morpeth was completed by his son in law who was living with him together with J's two sons, his married daughter, two teenage grandsons and a 3 day old granddaughter. At 72 years old I shouldn't think he could stop his head from spinning long enough to complete a census. 

The witnesses at the wedding were Mary Potts (more or less where you came in) and William Fairey (it looks like). If Mary hadn't been with them in Tursdale in 1861 I might have thought I had the wrong certificate but it seems OK.

It seems the odds swing back in favour of the Seaton Delaval John with his Northumberland burr, his Mitford father and the connection to Holy Island through his mother. Though I'll have to look carefully at the two families I think. I'm beginning to feel there was a relationship between them.

Thanks once more.

Jack

 

[Michael Dixon]

Well Jack, the below info that I got today from Newcastle library, might lead to me eating my words... don't throw in the towell yet....

Here goes..

Ulgham Parish. Marriage
14 May 1825
John Johnson >< Martha Pattersaon

Mitford Parish. Baptisms.

16 Sep 1827 Robert Johnson, son to John, labourer, and Martha Johnson, of Low Highley ( good name, eh ? )

15 Nov 1829 John Johnson ditto

16 Oct 1831 Isabella Johnson ditto

3 July 1836 Mary Johnson  ditto

11 Feb 1838 Sarah Johnson.. ditto John is described as "hind" (meaning farm labourer)

18 May 1834 Ann JOHNSTON,  ditto except place is just Highley and "hind".


Others...

Morpeth Marriage
25 Sep 1828 John Johnson >< Mary Forsyth

Horton Marriage
19 Dec 1829 John Johnson >< Mary Watson.

I could see no relevant Johnson bapts in Earsdon Parish ( which covered Seaton Delaval !

Michael Dixon


Now to chew things over in relation to all other info !

[Michael Dixon]

P.S.

Mitford Parish.

Baptism

John Johnson, born 1 June 1798, baptised 13 June 1798
first son to John Johnson, husbandman, native of the Parish of Kirkwhelpington, by his wife Mary Lewins , native of Morpeth.


Michael Dixon

[jackspratt]

That was extraordinarily kind of you Michael.

I'm going to need a rainy day and a big sheet of paper I think but, broadly, I feel I was on the right lines.

It looks as if Martha's John worked in Mitford a while where children were born.

I think you've (nearly) cleared up something that was a bit confusing for me about Seaton Delaval John's father - 1798 Mitford John who I'd decided had married a Chollerton born 1799 Mary Lewins.  This was, however, the name of the wife of S.D John's grandfather's wife, the Mary Lewins born 1758 Morpeth who you've picked up, which seemed unlikely, though possible. You've pinpointed the Horton Mary Watson or Morpeth Mary Forsyth instead. It looks as if it comes down to one of those 'balance of probability' scenarios.

As you say - time to chew things over in relation to all the other info you've kindly supplied. I'll do that and try to get off the fence. Just out of interest I'll let you know what I decide.

I hope you won't mind if I come back to you again with any Northumbrian problems that arise. It seems to be one of your areas of expertise. Unfortunately, from your point of view, my queries are likely all to be to do with John Johnsons. 

Many thanks

Jack

PS. I just got a pop up saying any of my posts had to be my own work - presumably this was in connection with the census copyright clamp down. I've taken the precaution of copying everything you've told me to Word in case they wipe it - which I believe has happened - so I'll not need to get back to you for a repeat performance.

[jackspratt]

I'm sorry to bother you again with this Michael but I was just trying to do my amendments and I'm still not convinced I've got the right man.

I looked at the map to see where Woodhorn is and see that it is near Newbiggin and Ashington, north of Blyth.

My ancestor 1832 John consistently noted through his censuses that he was born in Seaton Delaval which is south of Blyth. It's only in the 1901 census that Morpeth is mentioned and, if he's Martha's son, some of his sister's were apparently born there so maybe his children assumed he was.

So far I haven't seen an entry for Martha's son which actually says where he was born, 1841 and 51 only say Northumberland.

I wonder if you could find him in the 1861 or 71 census to see what he says for a birthplace. I've looked in 1881 and there is one possible candidate living in Tanfield with a daughter called Martha but he was born in Bellingham, which could be a bit too far away. He's not a blacksmith but a coal miner.

I can't really see any other suitable entries.

I know it's a tall order. I tried looking in BMD to see if he died but they just give up when you write John Johnson - at least they do at this time of day.

I won't blame you if you don't feel up to it.

Jack
 

[Michael Dixon]

Jack,

I am currently trying to sort the Johnsons out. ( a dog with a bone ! )

My hunch is still for John, Martha's son, and yes there is the  contradiction that Matha's John was born within the territory* of Mitford and yet the John who married Marg Potts said he was born in Seaton Delaval.

So I am looking for a third John J and other clues to support one of the "two"


* It is dangerous to refer to a modern map when considering places in C19th.

Today Woodhorn is a "place", a small village, hardly separate from Ashington. In 1800s and before, Woodhorn was two entities... a small village, and a wider area including what today is the east of Ashington town, Woodhorn itself, Newbiggin-by-the-Sea, North Seaton, etc. ( for e.g. those Johnson's who were, according to the census, born Woodhorn, my hunch is they were born in Hirst, now Ashington, where they were on C1841 ! ).

When I tidy up all my bits of paper, I will make sure , you end up with it all.

I am currently in Darlington, cat-sitting for a fortnight, with few distractions,  so I think me and the cat will crack this case.

Michael

[Michael Dixon]

C1861 3871-6-6
East High House Farm, Newminster Abbey, Morpeth
(Lies on south bank of River Wansbeck, just west of Morpeth Town, approaching Mitford... see Morpeth maps on communities.northumberland.gov.uk)
Head John Johnson, 62, lab b. Mitford
Wife Mary Johnson 61 b.Horton
Dtr Isabella Johnson 30 u/m Gen servant b. Woodhorn
Dtr Mary Johnson 23 u/m b. Mitford ( c1851 it was Woodhorn)
Grandaughter Mary Ann Craigie 9 b. Morpeth
Grandaughter Elizabeth Ann Johnson 1 month b. Morpeth

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?? C1861 Keel Row, Bedlington ( what is now "Bedlington Station" )
3873-49-32
Head John Johnson 29 lab, b. Woodhorn
Wife Margaret Johnson 27, b. Dinnington
Dtr Mary 2 b. Horton or Harton

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   C1861 3853-104-14
Whalton
Servant in household. George Johnson u/m 26, b. Woodhorn

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[Michael Dixon]

Ulgham Parish Marraiges.

But only possibilities ...

Married 18 May 1788. John Patterson >< Isabel Forrest

Married  5 July 1797. John Patterson >< Ruth Smith

( I think more potential in the first one... - English Naming Pattern... John/Martha called their first dtr Isabella ! )

Michael Dixon