The colonies, name changes and prison!

[casalguidi]

Yes, I think it must be correct too.  One of the marriage witnesses looks to be an Annie E HAWKSHAW and an Annie Elizabeth SOWDEN married a HAWKSHAW in 1878 http://www.ancestry.co.uk so she must have been Margaret's sister

Haven't quite made up my mind what the name of the other witness says

Casalguidi

Update - I think the other witness is Charles HAWKSHAW (Annie's husband)

[leaf]

WOW!!

Thanks everyone.  Loads of information to take in.

Sorry Carol I obviously hadn't woken up properly earlier,  of course they fit!

I'll absorb everything in properly.  It all looks super so far.

Thank you all so much.         leaf

Update:-  I thought you might like to know how I've got on with this. 

I still don't know about George Wilson.  The children Anne, Margaret and William Sowden are the children of Margaret (nee Bartley) and Thomas Sowden.  George Wilson could be a second husband of Margaret, as I have no idea what happened to Thomas Sowden and his wife Margaret after the 1871 census when they were living in Kent.  I don't know how or why Thomas Sowden, dock labourer, ended up in St. Helena, but he was a soldier with the St. Helena Regiment.  I did post on the immigrants board and it was very useful, thank you 

I haven't found a service record for George Foster he may have joined up just before 1873, as he would have been about 19 then.  I have found a record for William George so will probably end up buying that shortly.

Will let you know how I get on.  Thank you all, leaf

[leaf]

Hi All,

Another update!

I couldn't find William George's baptism or one for his younger brother Harry who was born in Gravesend in 1882.  I looked in the same church as Annie Louisa's baptism and the ones in Northfleet and Gravesend.  What a fantastic project the City Ark is.
Thank you Casalguidi for finding the baptism record and marriage certificate, great work with the witnesses too 


Manchester Rambler, thank you so much, all the information on the Lawrences is fantastic.  I don't think they knew how old they were either, unless they had 2 children called Edith?  I found the parents in 1901 (Ref. RG 13/368 Page 2) with a daughter Eady age 9, yet she should be 12 according to the 1891 census.  I found a possible birth registration in Jan-Mar quarter 1894, St Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey Vol. 1d Page 62.  This would mean she wasn't around in 1891 and would be 7 in 1901   

I think I'll have to order Arthur and Jane's marriage certificate to try to get further back with them.

 Once again, thank you all,

leaf

[leaf]

Hello again,

I would appreciate any help or insights into this again please.

I have since got hold of the naval record for George Foster and that was interesting, it tied up the spell in prison so that was a a good find.

I asked for the marriage certifate for Arthur William and Jane McIntosh as mentioned in Manchester Ramblers post.  However I ended up with a partial refund as the names didn't match even though they were on the same page.  So it would seem that Elizabeth Jane Stuttle married Arthur William Lawrence.  As all of the census information I have lists his wife as Jane, do you think Elizabeth went by her middle name?  Or am I trying to make things fit?

I'm still wondering if it would be a better option to try to get Edith Maria's birth certificate.  I've still got the same dilemma over that as I had in my last post though    Her marriage certificate isn't much help as apparently she lied on that (states she was 20 in 1909) giving another year of birth as 1889!!! 

I look forward to any advice, thank you.  Leaf

[JAP]

As indicated earlier, Annie Elizabeth SOWDEN (possibly the sister of Margaret FOSTER nee SOWDEN) married, March quarter 1878, Medway, with one of the males on the same page being Charles HAWKSHAW.

1881 census (from FamilySearch):
20 Mill Road, Gillingham, Kent
Charles HAWKSHAW, Head, 21, b Sheffield, a Private in the Royal Marines
Annie do, Wife, 24, b Saint Helena
Florence do, Daughter, 4 months, b Gillingham
Charles do, son, 2, b Gillingham
Annie E HAWKSHAW, married, Mother-in-Law, 42, b Saint Helena

I can't work out that relationship of 'mother-in-law' at all - unless she's really Charles's step-mother!

JAP

[JAP]

Hi leaf,

Assuming that the census extracts provided by Manchester Rambler are the right family, then a possible birth for Edith Maria would be the following:
Edith Maria LAWRENCE, birth, Sep quarter 1889, Whitechapel.

This would more or less fit with her age of 20 (which you cite above) at her marriage in Jun quarter 1909.

In the 1891 census extract provided by Rambler, Edith is aged 2 (more or less a fit with the above registration) and born Spitalfields - Spitalfields was in Whitechapel.

Perhaps the Sep qtr 1889 birth registration was late?  That could explain why she was already aged 2 in Jun 1891, and already aged 20 in Jun qtr 1909.

A pity you didn't just ask for the Jun qtr 1875 marriage cert for Arthur William LAWRENCE without specifying a wife's name  - that way you'd have had by now his wife's name, their ages, and also the names and occupations of their fathers.  Perhaps that would be the best certificate to get now (rather than a birth cert for Edith Maria).

But perhaps before you order it, you might post the details of the 1901 census entry which you initially thought was Edith's?  This might be able to be assigned to a different couple.

Regards,

JAP   

[carol8353]

The fact that Annie E age 42 was born in St Helena(as Annie E junior was) suggests that she is probably her mum?

If you look at the image the enumerator has actually just dittoed her surname,suggesting that he could have easily made a mistake.

Notice how he's written that Charles was born in Sheffield LANCASHIRE.

Leaf,how much checking info did you supply when ordering the marriage cert?
Often if a tiny detail does not match,the GRO will not produce it.
It does not neccesarily mean that Arthur and Jane weren't the ones who married. Maybe the cert has her name spelt Macintosh for example?

Carol

[JAP]

Hi Carol,

But don't we know (or everything leads to this!) that the parents of Annie (SOWDEN) HAWKSHAW were Thomas and Margaret.  This from the 1871 census entry which you posted earlier.

JAP

[leaf]

Thank you JAP and Carol for your interest and help with this.  I have established that Annie Elizabeth Sowden and Margaret Sowden are sisters children of Thomas Sowden and Margaret.  The family in 1881 is them but I believe a mistake was made with the mother-in-law.  I think the name Annie E just got repeated by accident as the mother-in-law Margaret was born in St. Helena.

JAP the birth you've found in 1889 for Edith Maria Lawrence ties in with the Edith age 2 on the 1891 census and the marriage certificate.

The 1901 census ref RG13/368 Page 2 states

Arthur W Lawrence, Head, Married, age 50, file maker, worker, London St. Giles
Jane Lawrence, Wife, Married, age 44, Colecester, Essex
Eady Lawrence, Daughter, age 9, London

Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on the apparent change in age of Eady from the 1891 census.  Arthur has knocked 2 years off his age and Jane 1 which is fair enough.  I just thought 3 years for a child was a lot?

I'm still a bit green at this.  The marriage certificate I tried to order was the first one I'd done online.  (I had a great outcome when I ordered one over the 'phone from Gateshead!)  JAP I should have done exactly what you said.  Carol I put the names Arthur William Lawrence and Jane McIntosh on the order.  I will have to try again unless more light can be shed now I've posted the 1901 census entry.

Thank you once again  leaf