1861/71/81/91 Censuses: Elizabeth Mary Arthur, Troedyrhiw (Please help!)

[osprey]

from FreeBmd marriages june qtr 1885
Elizabeth Mary Aurthur Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 663. Possible spouses John Vivian or William Walters.

Still can't find her on 1891 census though. Will keep trying.

[sas66]

from FreeBmd marriages june qtr 1885
Elizabeth Mary Aurthur Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 663. Possible spouses John Vivian or William Walters.

Still can't find her on 1891 census though. Will keep trying.

Ah yes, the dreaded curse of those who seem congenitally incapable of spelling Arthur correctly - there are more of them than you might think (and some of them quite ingenious - there is a company that shall remain nameless which sends me junk mail where the name 'Arthur' has somehow been tortuously morphed into 'Aruther'!). Moreover, I have got to say, it does seem that there is a persistent cabal of individuals who just refuse to accept that the name Arthur only has one 'u' in it - perhaps in alliance with the other cabal that is convinced that Arthur must have an 'e' in it somewhere?!

Osprey, you are an absolute star - thank you so much for all your work on my behalf - that is now three new windows you have opened for me! I'm genuinely thrilled. Thank you!

Simon

[sas66]

I'm not sure how the free bit of Ancestry works, but I believe all you need to do is register and this gives you access to the complete bmd index. Anyway, using my (very worthwhile) subscription, I found this marriage
dec qtr 1918 Harriet I Arthur, Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 1328 to Fowler. Double checking, the spouse's name was Arthur Fowler.

Getting this marriage cert from the GRO would help tracing Harriet Ivy as it would give her age and her father's name and occupation.

No other births to Arthur and Draper show up on FreeBmd, but coverage is patchy after 1909.

I have ordered the marriage cert. for Harriet I Arthur and Arthur Fowler from the GRO. I hope to have it in approx. 10 days.

I'm holding back on ordering the marriage cert. for Elizabeth Mary Arthur (or should I say Aurthur  ?) for the time being: I've located a gentleman on Genes Reunited who has an Elizabeth Mary Arthur, b. 1862 in Troedyrhiw, in his family tree and have messaged him, but have yet to hear anything back. If no joy through this lead by the end of the week, I will go ahead and order the marriage cert. anyway.

[sas66]

An update on the Elizabeth Mary Arthur saga for anyone interested in the story so far.

After Osprey's lead that an Elizabeth Mary Arthur (ok, ok, Aurthur!) had married a John Vivian in 1885, I made contact with a guy on Genes Reunited with an Elizabeth Mary Arthur, b. 1862 in Troedyrhiw, in his tree on that site.

It turns out that Elizabeth Mary Arthur married John Vivian May in 1885. May was a lead miner, born (c. 1846) and raised in Newlyn, Cornwall, who moved to South Wales in the 1860s, presumably because the mining work was better in the Valleys than in Cornwall at that time.

May had already been married and widowed since moving to South Wales by 1885. When his first wife, Mary Ann May (née Lewis), died (1885), John May fairly rapidly married Elizabeth Mary Arthur. Perhaps the fact that John May had four children from his marriage to Mary Ann still to raise influenced the decision to marry Elizabeth Mary?

Elizabeth Mary May (née Arthur) had four children to John Vivian May between 1886 and John's death in 1892. The eldest child was named Thomas Anthony Bassett May. The re-appearance of the mysterious 'Bassett' name serves to confirm that it was the Elizabeth Mary Arthur that I have been trying to trace who married John Vivian May. However, the whereabouts of Edgar Bassett Arthur, Elizabeth's child born out of wedlock (in 1882) at the time of the 1891 Census remain a mystery: he was not apparently living with his mother, her husband John Vivian May, and the three children from that marriage born prior to that Census.

Eight years after John Vivian May's death, his widow Elizabeth Mary married an Evan Williams (b.c.1860 in Brecon) in the spring of 1900. Elizabeth was living in Troedyrhiw with Evan and three of the four children from her marriage to John Vivian May at the time of the 1901 Census.

I have identified that there was an Evan Williams born in Breconshire around 1860 living in Yew Street, Troedyrhiw at the time of the 1881 Census (which raises the intriguing prospect that Elizabeth Arthur knew Evan for a long time before marrying him, and even that he may have been the father of Edgar Bassett Arthur!) - unfortunately the name Evan Williams is so common in the Valleys at that time that it is impossible to be sure if it is the same man without a great deal more research.

At this stage then, Edgar Bassett Arthur's whereabouts between 1882 and 1901 remain a mystery, as does the identity of his father, but the mystery of Elizabeth Mary Arthur has been largely resolved. 

I'm now waiting on the marriage certificate for Harriet Ivy Arthur (née Draper) and Arthur Fowler in 1918 to track down the origins of the elusive Harriet so I can find out if Edgar Bassett Arthur's son, Derrick Gordon Bassett Arthur, had any siblings! I'll update further when the certificate arrives.

By the way, for anyone interested (and Osprey in particular), I'm up and running with ancestry.co.uk, and, yes, the subscription is certainly worth it!

Simon 

[osprey]

So glad to hear your update. What a good contact! Young Edgar is still a bit of a nuisance in 1891. There are bits that are missing from the census but can't remember off the top of my head if anything near your family is a potential 'lost' piece.
 I'd imagine that having children to look after would have influenced his decision to marry, but it worked for both of them - he had a mother for his children and she was married although she'd had an illegitimate child. With no welfare state to fall back on, it was practical and not uncommon.

 Do keep us updated.

[sas66]

OK, well the marriage certificate for Harriet Ivy Arthur (née Draper) and Arthur Fowler in 1918 has arrived, and it has enabled me to identify Harriet's origins.

The marriage certificate shows Harriet was a 33-year-old widow at the time of her marriage to Arthur Fowler on 11th December 1918, and that her father had a fairly distinctive first name - Elijah! Knowing that Harriet was born in 1885 and that her father's name was Elijah Draper has enabled me to track down Harriet's family of origin.

Harriet was born OND 1885 in Shatterford, Worcestershire. Her father was Elijah Draper born c.1858 in Shatterford. Her mother, Harriet Draper (née Childs) was born in 1861 in Stockton-on-Teme, Worcs.

Harriet jr. had four sisters (Sarah, Dorothy, Jesse & Edith) and two brothers (Egbert [!] and Samuel).

Furthermore, I've been able to trace the Drapers AND the Childs back a futher generation. Elijah Draper was the youngest of five born to Elijah Draper, sr. (b.c.1818) and Ann Draper, née Tomkins (b.c.1818), whilst Harriet Childs was the youngest of five children born to Samuel Childs (b.c.1813) and Ann Childs, née Evans (b.c.1822).

HOWEVER, despite having identified Harriet Ivy Draper's origins, I am still left with the unresolved question of when and where she married Edgar Bassett Arthur. I can find no trace of the registration of this marriage! There is no trace of it via www.freebmd.org.uk or www.ancestry.co.uk. Can anyone suggest any other avenue where I might identify Harriet and Edgar's place and date of marriage? My hunch is that they married between 1906 and 1910.

[sas66]

I should add that I'm really anxious to get hold of the marriage certificate for the marriage of Edgar Bassett Arthur and Harriet Ivy Draper because I'm intrigued to find out who (if anyone) is named as Edgar's father on it, given that no father is named on Edgar's birth certificate.

But the search for the marriage certificate is not made easier by the fact that Edgar and Harriet are from different counties in different countries. It's impossible to even guess where the marriage may have taken place.