BAILEY - A small brick wall (I hope)

[trish251]

I have been doing some research for a friend and need some help to find the following person (I have been searching the census for days      )

On a marriage certificate from Australia 1862
John Bailey bachelor born Devonshire  Coach Driver Age 28 (born c.1834)
Father John Bailey, farmer, mother Mary Saunders(probably - diff to read)

I thought I had found a possibility - born c. 1838 - but could handle that - living in Woolfardisworthy - unfortunately I found that John a policeman in 1871.

On his death certificate (1884) it was stated he had been in Australia for 30 years and his name was given as John Ernest, mother was Mary, father Unknown Bailey - his wife was the informant so this tends to indicate to me there must have been some contact with the mother from Australia.

I can see no reason for him to have lied, but many immigrants to Australia reinvented themselves, so I cannot guarantee he gave correct information.

If anyone can find a baptism or census 1841/51 record for my John it would be much appreciated. I have found Bailey to be often spelt Bayley.

Children & oft used family names include John, Ernest, Walter, Edward, Francis (girls seem to follow the mother's family names).

Trish

[deb usa]

Hi Trish

I was going thru the  for you and I found something .... the year of birth for your John are really off but it's worth a mention;

1841;

John BAILEY 50 b abt 1791 wheelwright
Mary  Bailey 55 b 1786
Mary Ann 25 b 1816
JJOHN E.? 20 Wheelwright
Marion 15 1826
William 10 1836

When I first looked at it I saw a definite squiggle after JOHN's  name ... couldn't make it out, but after rereading your post where you mention that John's middle name was ERNEST ... I had another look. Could def be a E after his name . Also the Wheelwright occupation is  related to coaches ,

Just thought  i would mention this . I will keep looking !

Deb

[trish251]

Hi Deb

Thank you so much for looking - and I'll see if I can find it & convince myself the age is all wrong! - I am really beginning to wonder if perhaps he didn't know who his father was & picked his own name - so am looking for any John with mother Mary 

I can't believe he is so hard to find - so many thanks again

Trish

[trish251]

Hello Deb

If you are still looking ?  I found a John Ballamy 1851 born Rewe Devon - parents John and Mary ( HO107/1869 folio 361 page 30) - I can't find this family in 1841 or 1861 - if you have a few minutes could you check it - two lookers are often much better than one - thanks

Trish

[deb usa]

Hi Trish 

Well I think your 'small brick wall' has turned into a VERY BIG one LOL!!~

I have been looking for John Ballamy in 41 and 51 to no avail.

I have also done a search with just 'John" and parents "mary and John".
I have found some interesting things but not so much in the Devon area.

This one may interest you as there was a SAUNDERS BAILEY ....Saunders being John's mother's maiden name.... Ho107/1763 fol 301 p 15 (1851) ..scroll back in the pages  ie: 15 backwards ...there is a whole Clan of Baileys living in Fore Street.

Also in 1851:
living in Sandford Devon
John Bailey 62 wheelwright/carpenter , master employing 1 man and 1 boy
Mary wife 66
Maria daughter

down the street : Elizabeth Bailey 88 widow

Do you think that in 1851 that John b 1834 would have already left home ? he would be about 17 in '51.

RG 107/1767 fol 162 p12    1851
John bailey 36 Farmer
Mary wife 37
John 12
mary 10
Francis  (you mentioned that this could be a family name)
sarah


RG HO107/1846 fol 282 p 7   1851, Baileys with Family names you mentioned!

I learned yesterday that I have a Bailey in my Family .... her father was a BRAYLEY.... so I have been searching thru them for you!

will keep on searching and trying to climb the brick wall....

Deb

[trish251]

Hello Deb

many thanks for your searching - sometimes I think it becomes a tussle between woman & machine - I keep telling myself it has to be there somewhere!

I have also been looking for John with parents Mary & John and have branched into mother Mary only - lots to look at!

I think it's possible that he may have been born elsewhere, but he probably at least lived in Devonshire as that was on his marriage certificate (thus supplied by himself). I found his wife's family back in England with one search! I also found their immigration.

According to John's death certificate he arrived about 1854 (information from wife so not so reliable). There are an amazing number of John Baileys who came to Oz at this time. The indexes don't give much away & if "unassisted" neither do the shipping lists. The one I thought most likely to be him was listed as a surgeon.

I also think it is quite likely he was not with the family in 1851 & I do wonder if his father died early - he could even be with grandparents or the like in 41.

I will look at what you have found with interest. The farmer and wife look to be slightly too young - unless perhaps that Mary had a child before her marriage but it seems unlikely she would then name her next child John. The Saunders one looks interesting.

Thanks again - if we find him we can share a cross Pacific celebration 

Trish

[trish251]

Hi Deb


I checked out all your finds - interesting and close - until I find something otherwise I think I have to assume Devon is correct. The John Bailey at Sandford was interesting - he had a son John at home in 1841 - sadly age out by about 12 years - slightly too much I think. There seem to be many baileys in that area - I'll keep looking

Trish

[deb usa]

 
Good Morning Trish

I have been wading throug the 1851 census  looking for the elusive John Bailey!!~

Going on the assumption that he had left home by 1851 I found the following:

John BAILY visitor 17 b 1834 , gardener assistant
living with the Geen(?) family in Hartland road lodge , Bideford, Devon

John BAILEY 18 b 1833, carpenters app living with the Bright family
RG HO107/1885 fol 106 p 11

This one I thought i would mention as the head of the house is WALTER (family name) BAILEY in Holsworthy.Its a large family , lots and lots of kids including a John.
RG HO107/1896 fol 322 pg 8+9

also looked at the neighbours hoping to find a SAUNDERS family near ...but to no avail.

Started looking for a Mary SAUNDERS ...but Blimey ... there are soooo many and I had nothing to go on as far as who her family was...

Will give the 1841 another go !

bye for now
Deb

[trish251]

Hi Deb

The two young men alone look good - I may have found them before - but will have to try & find them in 1841, to prove they are mine. John said he was a coach driver - but he could have learned that in Australia - presumably something like the Cobb&Co coaches. He said his father was a farmer - but that could be an ag lab    so the gardener is a possibility. Interesting that he is a visitor - rather than a boarder - might be a relative?

I know nothing about Mary's family at all, except that she is listed as the mother of John. Perhaps if I can think outside the square & find a marriage record for Mary & John - main problem being I am not 100% sure she was a Saunders & I haven't had any joy with Devon parishes - but I shall go looking for some.

Thank you for staying interested - but I will understand if you want to leave for a month or two   

Trish