Re: INFO: Obituary Database Swansea look up offers.

[Cinders59]

Hi Jen
If you don't mind.

Thanks
Julie

[Welsh Jen]

I am hoping to be able to do the search tomorrow afternoon. I will post here with my findings.

[Cinders59]

Thanks Jen.

Julie

[Welsh Jen]

     Hello Julie. I have searched for an Obituary for your ancestors to much success. However there are NO obituaries as such.

This accident is covered on many pages of the papers too many to copy ~ The cambrian and the south wales daily post. So much so I believe that is why no obituaries were actually placed. The funeral procession was amazing in the photographs I could see the people who were paying their respects lined the roads to infinity!

I had to stop at 4 copies as the library charge 35p per photocopy. There are other pages in the newspapers The Cambrian and The South Wales Daily Post.

The papers state that the funeral was Wed June 21st 1922 Morriston, I take that to mean Morriston Cemetery I will contact the cemetery supervisor Robert Curran as soon as I can to see if there are any monumental inscriptions for the ancestors concerned if you would like me to.

This may seem unorthodox however I have 4x A3 photocopies which I will find difficult to email you in their totality. I would not normally ask this but if you could give me your postal address via personal message I can them send these copies to you via the postal system.

Note there is another family member who also perished. His name was J Griffiths. There is a mention of another man with the surname John, but it remains unclear to me if he does belong to your John's family.You were correct,  Robert did die along with his brother Thomas John, Robert is mentioned on several occasions in the newspapers as Bob. Another family member David John survived the accident there is also a photograph of David within the photocopied newspaper reports.

I will pop to the church tomorrow and take photographs where their funeral took place as this is only a 5 minute walk from where I live~ I will email you the photographs if you would like them. The funeral was a huge affair and seemed to effect the whole community in Morriston & Plasmarl. Quite heartwrenching to look at the reports, a very sad time it seems.

I have found that Robert John lived at Ty Capel Vicarage Rd(Chapel House in Welsh) , this house is actually right next door to the Church I will see if this house still exists tomorrow. All the deceased were involved with the Plasmarl Male Voice Choir and I beleive that J Griffiths was a treasurer of the choir.

One of the reports state the following: " Tom John (52), Bob John (45) & J Griffiths are members of the same family and the former leaves a widow and 8 children.

I believe that Robert (Bob) didn't die at the scene. It seems he did hold on for some time but unfortunately died soonafter. The paper stated "Bob John Morriston Swansea, severe injuries to head & in a serious state".

The funeral seems to have taken place on Wednesday June 21st 1922. I could not see any names for the 8 children in the paper. Only this:
The number of mourners was very large one of the largest ever seen in Morriston following the corteges of the two Johns and young Griffiths, the three near relatives. The chief of these were Messrs. Robert and Eddie John (sons of Robert John) David John (brother of Robert John) Joseph John (son of Thomas John) William , Evan and David John (brothers of Thomas John) and Wyndham Griffiths uncle and nearest relative of John Griffiths" There are other relatives mentioned.

It was also interesting to see that there was a fund set up for the family left behind.
"Mayor's fund donations for level crossing dependents" were noted many times in the papers.

I hope this information helps you in your search. I attach 2 photographs from the newspapers. One (with no name) is Thomas John and the other Bob (Robert) John.
 

[Cinders59]

Hi Jen.

Thanks for kooking all that up for me. I have managed to find out quite a bit about the funeral and I have been to the grave as my grandparents are also buried there.  I am still not a 100% certain that Thomas and Robert John were brothers as I could not make out the print from the reports. It states the names of the brothers of Thomas as William Evan and David, but it does not say that they are also brothers to Robert.  I am trying to find out the connection to J Griffiths, as of yet unsuccessful.
The house next to the chapel is still there, but I have tried to find Thomas's house 7 Vicarage road, but I can't find it.  I have written to Carmel but they don't have any records, so that was no help in finding out the names of Thomas's 8 children.

The Chapel graveyard where they were buried was in Llangafellach, I have been there.

Thank you for all your help and let me know how I can pay for the photocopies.

Many thanks.

Julie

[Welsh Jen]

I am still not a 100% certain that Thomas and Robert John were brothers as I could not make out the print from the reports. It states the names of the brothers of Thomas as William Evan and David, but it does not say that they are also brothers to Robert.  I am trying to find out the connection to J Griffiths, as of yet unsuccessful. Thank you for all your help and let me know how I can pay for the photocopies.
Many thanks.
Julie

Hello Julie. One of the newpaper reports does actally state " Tom John (52), Bob John (45) & J Griffiths are members of the same family and the former leaves a widow and 8 children.

Do you think they may have had the same father but different mothers?

With regards to the photocopies not to worry about the cost. If you would like them though p.m your details and I will put them in the post today.

I think I have found them in the 1881 census, but strangely there seems to be a duplicate double entry for the family with the address slightly changing:

   Dwelling:   26 Horeb
   Census Place:   Clase, Glamorgan, Wales
   Source:   FHL Film 1342290     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 5354    Folio 15    Page 27
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
David JOHN   M   35    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Copper Man
Ann JOHN   M   35    F   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Wife
Thomas JOHN       15    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
Mary JOHN       12    F   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Daur
Elaner JOHN       9    F   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Daur
David JOHN       6    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
Robert JOHN       4    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
Edward JOHN       2    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son

   Dwelling:   Bath
   Census Place:   Clase, Glamorgan, Wales
   Source:   FHL Film 1342290     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 5353    Folio 49    Page 56
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
David JOHN   M   36    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Copperman
Ann JOHN   M   35    F   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Wife
Thomas JOHN       15    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Tending Mason
Mary JOHN       12    F   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
Elenor JOHN       9    F   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
David JOHN       7    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Robert JOHN       4    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
Edward JOHN       2    M   Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son

It may be a possibility that the parents were David John & Ann Griffiths?

[Cinders59]

Hi. Jen.
I thought this was my Thomas until I had his marriage certificate that stated his fathers name was William, and Thomas was born in 1870 making him 11 in 1881.  having looked at the 1881 census and  found Thomas with William as head of household there is no Robert, I thought maybe they were cousins.

My next option would be to find the marriage cert for Robert and Catherine and see the name of his father.

Julie

[Welsh Jen]

breaking the information down to:

DAVID JOHN Brother of ROBERT JOHN (Both involved one survived)

THOMAS JOHN Brother of William, Evan & David.

There is one census entry that has all these names but I am not sure if it is correct as the father's name is not William 

   Dwelling:   Clyndu
   Census Place:   Clase, Glamorgan, Wales
   Source:   FHL Film 1342290     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 5353    Folio 122    Page 95
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
Robert JOHN   M   45    M   Llangefelach, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Labourer In Tin Works
Mary JOHN   M   40    F   Llangefelach, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Wife
William JOHN   U   17    M   Llangefelach, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Labourer In Tin Works
Thomas JOHN       10    M   Llangefelach, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
David JOHN       8    M   Llangefelach, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Evan JOHN       5    M   Llangefelach, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Robert JOHN       3    M   Llangefelach, Glamorgan, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar

[Cinders59]

Jen.

Did you actually make out in the report that Thomas and Robert were brothers.
Julie.