Up a creek without a paddle!

[Denmark]

Oh why did I marry a BROWN!   I have two certificates, the first is a marriage certificate for Arthur Chester BROWN and Agnes Mabel KENNEY dated 19 March 1903 in Swansea.  Both were living at 30 Dillwyn Street, Swansea.  The other certificate is a birth certificate for Arthur Baron Brown, born 21 July 1903 in Leeds.  Parents were Arthur HERBERT Brown and Agnes Mabel Kenney.  I don't know the reason for the change of middle name here.  I am having trouble finding out where Arthur Chester/Herbert was born.  He gives his father's name as Walter Henry Brown, of Independent Means, on the marriage certificate.  I know the Chester is correct because that is my husband's middle name!   Could the Herbert be a mistake on the birth certificate?  I cannot find this guy on the 1901, except for one who is already married and born in America. I guess this could be him!   Maureen

[AMBLY]

Hi Maureen

How old was Arthur when he married in 1903 and what was his occupation?

Cheers
AMBLY

[Denmark]

Hi Ambly, Arthur was 27 when he married and his occupation was Merchants Clerk.  On the birth certificate for his son he was a bookkeeper.  I am not too sure about the ages because Agnes Mabel is shown as being 25 years old, and yet on the 1881 census she is 8.  Thanks for your reply. Maureen

[osprey]

how about this family in 1891?
4 Eden Tce Bath RG12/1936 folio 42 pg 10
Walter Henry Brown head mar 35 b. Suffolk, Ipswich
Matilda Ann wife 35 b. Som, East Harptree
Esther Maria dau 16 b. Bath
Walter Henry son 14 junior clerk solicitor's office b. Bath
Arthur Herbert son 9 scholar b. America New Jersey Greenville
Emily Elizabeth dau 5 b. Bath
Wilfred James son 1 b. Bath

[osprey]

oops - didn't mean to post without rest of info! Some of that family are still in Eden Tce in 1901, but not Arthur. I take it the Arthur you have found is the one in Newcastle. He looks an ok match. Birthplace isn't bad, age wrong and marital status? He's a visitor so people giving the info might not have known. The family are on the US census for 1880 on the LDS site, living in New York and Arthur isn't yet born. I'm just wondering whether I misread NY on the 1891 census as NJ - I'll recheck.

The age discrepancies on the marriage cert aren't too worrying. With an older wife, it seems quite common to even up the ages.
This looks like Agnes in 1901
30 Dillwyn Street, Swansea RG13/5075 folio 108 pg 18
Ann Lucas head single 71 dressmaker b. Glam, Gower
Agnes M Kenney servant single 26 b. Leeds, Yorks

[Denmark]

Thank you for your reply and the information.  I have been looking at that family as a possibility.  I was put off by the fact that Arthur in Newcastle was shown as married on the 1901 census.  The other thing was his change of middle name. Why did it change?  I am stuck on this family because my father in law, the son of Arthur and Agnes was fostered out as a child.  Why? If it is the Arthur born in New Jersey, maybe he decided to go back!   I have just sent for the marriage certificate of my husband's parents to see what details are given for the father.  I cannot find any more information regarding Arthur and Agnes as to what became of them.  Hopefully I will still be around for the release of the next census!   Maureen

[osprey]

just had another look at the 1891 and it does say NJ. The 1901 says Brooklyn, New York, New Jersey, America - that should have covered all possibilities! The family are in Brooklyn, New York on the 1880 census.

What about trying the US board ? - there are later census details available in the US and people on the board are really good at finding records of people arriving in New York. Has to be worth a shot.

[Denmark]

I will give the US board a try.  Thanks for the suggestion and your help which is much appreciated.   Maureen

[AMBLY]

Hi Maureen

Have found the wife & children of the 1891/1901 Walter Henry BROWN entering the US:

SS SOMERSETDeparted Bristol
Arrived New York on 17 Oct 1879
Travelling in Saloon Class, Cabin :
Line 2: Matilda BROWN 25, Lady, of England
Line 3: Esther BROWN 4, child, of England
Line 4: Walter BROWN 2, child, of England

On  Saloon - line 1 was a Dr ELLIS, a Surgeon of England aged 40.
On Lines 5 & 6 were a Gentleman 50, Caper (Caeser?) BELFIELD and a Lady, Miss ARMSTRONG 20. On this voyage, there were only 6 passengers in all in Saloon, and 29  in Steerage.

The first thing that comes to mind here is that the BROWNs were travelling in Saloon,in a Cabin - they must have been relatively well off to afford that. In C1891 above,  Walter Henry was an Insurance Agent.

Secondly, It would appear that husband/father Walter has gone ahead - this was common in those days, for the man to go first and establish a job & place to live before his wife/children shortly followed. For all the Saloon passengers the manifest does not state they intend to become inhabitants of USA or any country - the column is blank - whereas all the STreerage passengers state "USA". SO I wonder if this means they are on holdiday only, or on a protracted sojourn and intend to return to England (which we know they did do). Walter going first does indicate they were intended to remain in the USA for a while at least.

Cheers
AMBLY