Roupell Shooting Cup

[stoney]

Can anyone tell me anything about the Roupell Cup for shooting, contested at Bisley?

My husband's  G-Grandfather apparently won this contest in 1909 and we have a picture of him in uniform standing prodly with said cup and rifle in hand.

The inscription reads: "Army Sergt. Brown A.O.C. winner Roupell Cup 1909". The picture was sent as a postcard to family in India and post marked "Bisley, Cambs. July 22 1909.

I've no idea which regiment he may have served in but presume any relevant records might be held at PRO, Kew - if only I knew how to go about accessing them!

Any help very greatly received!

[themonsstar]

Hi
He is a Staff Sgt in the Army Ordnance Corps, the Roupell is one of the shooting competitions, Bisley is in Surrey next to Pirbright Army Training Camp,

[liverpool annie]

Hi Stoney !!

This doesn't answer your question but this may be of interest as a bit of background !!

http://www.francisfrith.com/search/england/surrey/bisley/photos/bisley_61322.htm

Annie 

[stoney]

Hi, Liverpool Annie and themonsstar - thanks for your input!

Any ideas how I'd begin looking for his military record at PRO - what info would I need to take with me?

What do you think of his moustache, by the way!

[jorose]

The Army Rifle Association Meeting took place from 8th July 1909 and lasted three days, with the Roupell Cup and the Revolver Twenty on the final day.  The Roupell cup, according to the Times, was designed for those who were debarred from taking part in the Army Championship, and consisted of 7 rounds at 300, 600, and 800 yards, and the other conditions the same as for the King's Prize.

The scores were:

1. Armourer Staff Sgt Brown, AOC, 95.
2. Captain Mayne, late Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, 94
3. Sergeant-Major Wallingford, School of Musketry, 94
4. Q.M.S.I. Bostock, School of Musketry, 94
5. Captain McVittie, AOD, 93.
6. Captain Henderson, Indian Army, 93.
7. C.S.I.M Armston, Leicester Regt, 93
8. Colonel McDonald, Indian Army, 93

It goes on to say that a feature of this competition was the excellent shooting of the AOC, particularly seeing as it was only recently, due to the efforts of Captain McVittie, that their interest has been turned to rifle shooting.

For the military record at the National Archives - this depends very much on when he was discharged, do you know? If he was still with the army in 1920 his record will still be at the MOD.

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline - you can look to see if he got WWI medals at all, there are several Browns with the rank of 'Armourer Staff Serjeant' in the AOC: W.E, John J, James, another James, Frederick C, Charles B, and Albert E.  If one of these is yours that will help because it will give you his regimental number.

If you can't find him at all in the WWI medal rolls, or you know he left the army before WWI, then there are indexes to discharge records from 1900-1913 at the NA you should look at.  If he was discharged during or just after WWI, it gets a bit more difficult and you should ask someone at the NA for help - these are the so-called 'burnt records' and it definitely helps to have an expert opinion!

[pwenlock]

The format of the roupell is as follows:

Practice 1 (10 rounds)
Begin 100m to the rear of the firing point. On appearance of a target at 100m you have 25 seconds to move to the firing point and engage it. There follows a further 3 targets at 100m.
Next, 1 target at 200m, up on hold (3 rounds)
Finally, 4 targets at 300m

Practice 2 (10 rounds)
From the fire trench, 1 target at 300m followed by 3 groups of 3 targets at 100m,200m and 300m at random.

Practice 3 (10 rounds)
Begin 2m to the rear of the firing point, on appearance of a target move forward and adopt the kneeling supported position and engage 2 targets (coming up randomly at 100, 200 or 300m). Standup and move to start point. Repeat a further 4 times.

Practice 4 (10 rounds)
Engage 5 groups of 2 targets at 100 or 200m from the standing, kneeling or squatting position. Return to the standing alert position after each pair.

Yours
Paul

[James C McVittie]

Dear all,
I was delighted to see this set of posts as I believe the Capt McVittie mentioned is my Great Great Grandfather Col Robert Henry McVittie CB, CBE, CMG of the RAOC. We in the family always understand him to be a fine shot and we still have a number cups and medals that we won for shooting over his career. We did not know of his role in establishing the interest in the event .Thank you for the background info which I will enjoy looking at after this post,
James McVittie

[stoney]

James - Magnificent piccie! You are lucky that you have cups and medals to commemorate your 2xG.grandfather's shooting prowess! We have only the picture I posted further back on this thread.

Robert Brown also respresented  GB  at the 1908 Olympics - in the Free Rifle, Three Postitions, Team category. They came 6th! Alas, no medals, although the family believe he had a "competitor's" medal - long since disappeared.

I know v.little about the AOC - can you point me in the right direction to find out what a Staff Sergeant (Robert's rank at the time of our photo) would entail?

I know that he and his family were in England from c. 1903 for a few years - prior to that he had been in India, where he had married his wife and had at least two children, and that he returned to India (along with the expanded family of 6 children!) continuing his service. He died there 18/10/1918, from influenza.

regards, Stoney

[James C McVittie]

Hi Stoney,

Lucky yes but a lot of polishing involved!
Both Robert Henry McVittie, the  Capt. who later went on to be a Col in the R.O.A.C and his son my grandfather Maj Gen C. H. McVittie CB. CBE. served in the Royal Army Ordnance Corps , my grandfather later becoming Colonel Commandant of the Corp in the late 60's. From my limited knowledge the R.A.O.C. it was formed out of what was the Army Ordnance Corp (AOC) it has now gone on to be what is called the Royal Logistic Corps and includes, the Transport, Pioneer, Catering and Ordnance Corps plus a few others.
To get perhaps a better insight have a look at and around this site;

www.army.mod.uk/rlc/history/363.aspx

To find out what he did and where, it may be worth contacting the Corps museum to see if they have any records for him and what unit he served, they are generally very helpful in the archive department. Tel: 01252 833371 the curators email is sebpuncher@rlcmuseum.com

The Royal Logistic Corps Museum
Princess Royal Barracks
Deepcut
Camberley
Surrey
GU16 6RW

Good luck with the research on Robert and I hope the above info helps,
Best wishes,
James