Ship owners - Sunderland & South Shields

[Westoe]

Hello Cherielynn,

A few more newspaper account bits and pieces .... but please, .....let me know if you already have them so that I don't keep reinventing the wheel (grin).

1)  1853: Thompson & Lee selling schooner "Ann"
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, April 29, 1853; Issue 9308

2) 1859: Thompson & Lee selling remains of barque "New Zealand" "as she lies" "in her damaged state"
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, June 3, 1859; Issue 9623

3) 1859: Thompson & Lee selling salvaged stores from barque "New Zealand"
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, June 3, 1859; Issue 9623

4)  1842: Marriage of Henry Lee to Ann Thompson
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, January 21, 1842; Issue 8720

5)  1858: Henry Lee elcted Town Councillor for Jarrow Ward, South Shields
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, June 11, 1858; Issue 9572.

6)  1860: Henry Lee and JLT unsuccessful in reelection munipally
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, November 2, 1860; Issue 9697

7)  1860: Henry Lee successful as plaintiff against charterer of "Cambyses" (includes small bit of case Thompson et al v. railway)
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, November 2, 1860; Issue 9697

 8 ) 1867: Marriage of Anne Mary Lee to W H Dickinson
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, September 13, 1867; Issue 10055.

9)  1864: Death of Henry Lee jr in a fall in shipyard
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, October 28, 1864; Issue 9905.

10)  1868: Foundering of barque "Logan", prop. of Henry Lee, L'pool
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, August 28, 1868; Issue 10105

11) 1860: and a truly pathetic one illuminating all that has been said about the dangers of shipping - a truly horrible piece of news that condemns those waiting and hoping to weeks more of dreadful uncertainty. This one you'll have to look up and read for yourself.

The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, March 2, 1860; Issue 9662


Signing off for a while. When I come back, I'll have some questions for you (including a reiteration of what I already posed in Post #14 of this thread).

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

Actually, here's one more - from The Newcastle Courant, Fri., 3 Oct. 1879, Issue 10683

Local Failures .... James Hutton KIDD of No. 16, King Street, South Shields, and Nos. 43 and 45, Ormonde Street, Jarrow, tailor, hatter, and outfitter, with liabilities 4,500 {GBP - I can't just now remember the ASCII code for it on my keyboard}, and assets 3,000 {GBP}. The Registrar has appointed Mr. J. M. Winter of Market Street, Newcastle, receiver and manager, on the application of Mr. Rennoldson, solicitor, of South Shields.

[Westoe]

and .... just one more little bit. Have a look at this picture:

http://cityofadelaide.org.au/images/stories/Ship/C423_William_Pile_Shipyard_North_Sands_about_1830.jpg

This is where, not so very long after this picture was painted, the "Alice Thompson" was built. She was a sweet little ship - on one of her early voyages (1852), she did "a distance of 980 miles, through a most intricate passage, in four days."

[julianb]

9)  1864: Death of Henry Lee jr in a fall in shipyard
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, October 28, 1864; Issue 9905.

Interesting, this one, as it describes Henry Lee snr as "one of the proprietors of the dockyard" of Metcalf & Lee.  Do we know anything about Metcalf?

JULIAN

[julianb]

Actually, here's one more - from The Newcastle Courant, Fri., 3 Oct. 1879, Issue 10683

Local Failures .... James Hutton KIDD of No. 16, King Street, South Shields, and Nos. 43 and 45, Ormonde Street, Jarrow, tailor, hatter, and outfitter, with liabilities 4,500 {GBP - I can't just now remember the ASCII code for it on my keyboard}, and assets 3,000 {GBP}. The Registrar has appointed Mr. J. M. Winter of Market Street, Newcastle, receiver and manager, on the application of Mr. Rennoldson, solicitor, of South Shields.

... according to the London Gazette, the Kidds were residing at Park Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne at the time.  Another example of bankruptcy leading to emigration (in this case New Zealand), I assume?

JULIAN

[julianb]

Just thought I'd summarise where I am with this very interesting set of families.  It seems bankruptcy was more of a likelihood for them than not.

Enoch Donkerley Thompson and Mary Ann Logan had five children:
Annie Thompson married Henry Lee, a ship-owner's son of Sunderland, and he went bankrupt twice - in South Shields 1864 and then in Liverpool 1867; Annie and he were dead by 1875. They had six children (see below)
Joseph Logan Thompson married Alice Snowden, from another South Shields shipowning family.  Joseph was in partnership with his father and then Henry Lee; he went bankrupt in 1865 and emigrated to Canada. There were 11 children, who I assume all went to Canada, including Ernest Evan Thompson (aka Ernest Thompson Seton).
Mary Anne Thompson who married Thomas Smith Henzell from another Tyneside shipping family (Henzell's sister married a Snowden).  Both dead by 1874 and no children that I can find.
Jane Thompson married James Bolton Robertson, a Sunderland Draper, who filed for bankruptcy in 1861, and died in 1869 in the Alnwick area. Jane was in London in 1871, but she and the three known children disappear into the ether at that point.
Evan Thompson died from TB in 1864.
So by the time they died in 1875, It looks like EDT and his wife had none of their children to hand.  Consequently, husbands of two of the granddaughters via Annie and Henry Lee were EDT's executors.

Annie Thompson and Henry Lee had six children:
Henry Thompson Lee - died in a shipyard in 1864
Anne Mary Lee married William Henry Dickinson, farmer and butcher of Jarrow, and subsequently Alderman and Justice of the Peace.  William was one of EDT's executors.   7 children.
Caroline Lee married John Kidd, Provender dealer of Liverpool and son of an Irish Wholesale Clothier. John Kidd bankrupt 1871.  By 1880 in Indianapolis, USA with 3 children, the first of whom was born in Liverpool.
Harriet Alice Lee married James Hutton Kidd a Liverpool clothier (John's elder brother).  By 1879 filed for bankruptcy on his Jarrow Tailor and outfitting business.  James was EDT's other executor.  Assumed emigrated to New Zealand by 1881 - 3 children - two born in north east england, including James Hutton Kidd of Gala and other apples fame.
Charles Havelock Lee married, in 1881, Elizabeth Torrance Hardle Foster, daughter of a Dumfries man who had settled in Jarrow.  Charles did not follow the family pattern - he was a sailor and it is assumed that is why he is hard to find in the census - died in Cardiff area 1901. 3 children.
Clara Jane Lee married John Kendall, Timber Merchant of Liverpool.  Stayed and thrived in Liverpool area - 4 children.
All four Lee girls married in Liverpool between 1868 and 1873.

Next main area of investigation now has to be Henry Lee's siblings 

JULIAN

[Westoe]

Annie Thompson married Henry Lee, a ship-owner's son of Sunderland, and he went bankrupt twice - in South Shields 1864 and then in Liverpool 1867; Annie and he were dead by 1875. JULIAN

Grin .... are you quite sure of that, julianb???   I suspect that you are assuming that because two grandsons-in-law were EDT's executors, that there were no other male relatives available.

Annie Lee visited Joseph in Canada in 1877, possibly even went on to Indiana.

Black Wolf: The Life of Ernest Thompson Seton - Page 62
by Betty Keller - Naturalists - 1984 - 240 pages

... Will Tell L In 1877 Joseph Logan Thompson's older sister Ann Lee came to
visit the Thompson family in Toronto, and in the course of her stay she brought
...

[julianb]

Annie Thompson married Henry Lee, a ship-owner's son of Sunderland, and he went bankrupt twice - in South Shields 1864 and then in Liverpool 1867; Annie and he were dead by 1875. JULIAN

Grin .... are you quite sure of that, julianb???   I suspect that you are assuming that because two grandsons-in-law were EDT's executors, that there were no other male relatives available.

When it comes to family history you can never be absolutely sure of anything      I always view "conclusions" as an opening bid in a game of cards 

My last post was based on the information before me, and I'm glad that you've been able to improve on that.   I could find no evidence that Henry nor Annie were still alive and kicking; without sending off for certificates, I would not be able to prove or disprove the conclusion I had drawn that Annie had died in Liverpool in 1874 and Henry in South Shields in 1875.

(My conclusion on JDT's executors was a result of that evidence before me.  JDT might well have written Henry Lee out of his affairs anyway because of HL's repeated business failures   )


You going to spill more beans on this, then?

JULIAN

[Westoe]

Aw, pshaw...... that last little piece of information I gave you was readily available from Google Books. (In fact, that's where I cut and pasted that quote from - because I still don't have access to my own stuff). Grin ... I don't think you've even combed through there yet.

What I'd like, is full names and dates for all Annie Lee's children, their spouses and their children. I know that I had a lot of gaps in my lists.

Cheers,
Westoe