Information about my grandfather in the Boer War, please?

[JJENG]

Hello,

I am keen to trace any available further information about my grandfather's involvement in the Boer War and his army career in general.  He was Private Thomas Carthy (born 1879) and he was reportedly involved in a number of Boer War military actions.   The 1901 Census  enumerated him as a patient in the Aldershot Military Hospital (Regiment - 5th. Royal Irish), possibly as a result of wounds sustained.

Later, he was based at The Curragh Camp, Co. Kilkenny circa 1906-1908 and at Aldershot in 1911.  He was also reportedly an army bandsman (possibly a drummer).

Many thanks in anticipation of any information received.

Best wishes,
John

[old rowley]

Hi John

Can not help with the Boer War I'm afraid but Thomas would still have been old enough for the 1st world war. Looking at the medal card index on the National Archive site there are 6 soldiers shown with that name. There is, however, only the one that was serving with the Royal Irish Regiment (Private 6466) wo 372/4. You  can down load an image of the medal card for £3.50 from the site www.nationalarchive.gov.uk (go into the section that says 1ww campaign medals then put his name and the service number 6566 in the search area's and the page will come up for you to proceed to purchase it online. The image of the card, when you get it, will only have details of the medals that he received on it for the 14-18 conflict unfortunately it will not have any personal details like date of birth etc.

old rowley

[JJENG]

Hi 'Old Rowley',

Many thanks for your incredibly swift response. Silly me..... since I posted my request I remembered that I have a copy of the birth certificate for one of my uncles from the Curragh Camp 1906.  It gives Thomas Carthy's number (5564) and regiment (3rd. Dragoon Guards) at that time. Do you know if they often changed regiments during service life or was the 5th. Royal Irish incorporated into the Dragoon Guards?

I am almost certain that he didn't serve in the 1st World War.  I remember my mother telling me that he recounted a number of stories to her about how lucky he was to have survived some tough actions during the Boer War, but there was no mention of WW1.

Thanks again for your kind assistance.
Best wishes,
John

[neil1821]

Hi John,

The 5th Royal Irish were the 5th Lancers (http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/cav/D05L.htm) and were a completely separate regiment to the 3rd Dragoon Guards (http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/cav/DG3.htm)

It wasn't particularly unusual for men to transfer between regiments during their army careers.

Just to complicate the matter further (sorry!), I've checked the cavalry rolls for the Queens South Africa Medal (Boer War). There is a T. Carthy listed, but he's not in either regiment already mentioned.
Entry is:
Carthy,T.,3364,Private,6th Dragoons,Johannesburg,Diamond Hill,Cape Colony,OFS,1901.

6th Dragoons were the Inniskillings (http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/cav/D06Innis.htm)

Hope that helps.
Neil

[JJENG]

Hi Neil,

Thanks very much for the interesting information about the regiments.

According to the website information, TC's known regiments (the 5th Lancers and the 3rd Dragoon Guards) were certainly deployed in South Africa and the Curragh as expected.  That's frustrating that the details don't concur for the T.Carthy you have found.  Could it be him - on what basis were the 4 digit numbers assigned? Could they change and could he have moved from the 6th Dragoons to the 5th. Lancers at a late stage in the war?  Of course, it could be that the 1901 Census enumerator got his regiment wrong (or his entry was recently transcribed incorrectly!).

As a matter of interest, I recall my mother telling me that she had seen photos of him in uniform sitting on horseback which probably confirms that he was in a cavalry unit.

Your comments or further help would be appreciated,

All the best,
John

[neil1821]

Hi John,

All 3 regiments mentioned are cavalry, so that much we can be reasonably sure of (5th Royal Irish can't really be anyone other than the Lancers).

The 4 digit service numbers were regimental numbers, not army numbers. So when he transferred to another regiment, he'd take up a new service number.

The similarity between the service number you found (5564) and that from the QSA roll (3364) could be coincidence of course but is certainly curious, despite supposedly being for different regiments. I imagine with bad handwriting, one could be read as the other?

Have you been able to view the original of that 1901 census entry? Would be interesting to see what it reads and also if he's with others of the same regiment.

By the way, I've checked the casualty roll from the Boer War and it doesn't appear he was wounded at all.

Bit of a puzzle all round!
Neil

Bit of a puzzle

[JJENG]

Hi again Neil,

I really appreciate your help with my questions and the information I am getting which is really interesting.  I am a big admirer of Kipling's poetry and his 'Barrack Room Ballads' about life in the Victorian army, so that adds to the fascination for me.  But why are the results of research always so confusing!!  Suppose that 's what makes delving into family history so interesting!!

As you say, it's quite possible that 3364 got transcribed as 5564 in error, perhaps even on the old birth certificate that is a copy done in the 1950s.  I will have another look at the 1901 Census entry that I viewed on Ancestry.com in my local library, to see what regiments the other soldiers belonged to (and get a copy this time).

Thanks again for your help,
Best wishes,
John     

[JJENG]

Hello Neil,

I have now obtained a copy of the 1901 Census return that lists my grandfather Thomas Carthy when a patient at the Aldershot Army Hospital.  I have also downloaded 11 other pages that lists over 300 hospitalised soldiers and showing their regiments.  Referring to your query, many of them are also from the 5th Royal Irish Regiment, which suggests there was no enumerator mistake. I presume it is my grandfather, even though the shown birthplace is Ireland, whereas he was in fact born in Brighton.  As most of his comrades in the 5th appear also to have birthplace Ireland, it is possible he lied to retain peer respect (his parents were Irish)!!

I would be interested in your comments...I can send the Census images mentioned above to you if you wish.

Thanks again for your help,
John
   

[Arfur Mo]

Hi there John and Neil,

I don't wish to confuse things, but I think that possibly you are looking at the wrong regiment with respect to Thomas Carthy's Boer war service.The Royal Irish Regiment did have a 5th battalion.You might find the following, from the RIR history of interest;

After participating in many of the colonial wars throughout the remainder of the 19th century, all three regiments fought in the South African, or Boer War. Here the Royal Irish Rifles were joined by volunteers from the London Irish, raised in 1860 as the 28th Middlesex (London Irish) Rifle Volunteer Corps, and Militia. A Militia battalion of the Royal Irish Rifles - the 5th or South Down - was one of the few Militia battalions to serve in South Africa.
http://www.army.mod.uk/royalirish/history/south_african_war.htm

I hope this is of some help,

Arf