Views needed please

[Chelsea]

Hi,

I know I can't get a ‘definite’ answer on this, but I would seriously appreciate some input on this problem with my Great Grandmother, Emma Brew nee Goddard.

If I tell you what I know ~ perhaps you could share your views?

Since starting my tree, I have always believed that Emma was the daughter of Thomas & Ann Goddard ~ born & raised in Leek, Staffs and the youngest of 10 children.

There has always been a little ‘confusion’ with the year of her birth, as she does not appear in the birth indexes. Census records generally put her year of birth between 1856-57 ~ apart from the 1861 which puts her at 1855. But, as her mum, Ann, died in 1853 this can’t be possible.

So, knowing that census information can easily be wrong, and the fact that the sibling before her was born around the beginning of 1851, I guessed probably 1852/53 was nearer the right year.

However……..just recently I happened to stumble across a second marriage for her father, Thomas. He apparently re-married in 1854!

If the census information is ‘reasonably’ accurate for Emma, she is more likely to be the daughter of Thomas and his new wife Sarah (Fernihough nee Rogers) rather than Thomas & Ann!!

As I said, the 1861 census shows her as 6. If she was born around 1852-3 she would have been nearer 9. I know many people were ‘unaware’ of their true ages back then and would just ‘guess’, but surely they would have known the difference between a child aged 5/6 to that of a child aged 8/9?  or maybe not.

The sibling born just before Emma was registered in Mar 1851 and Ann died in Dec 1853  ~ so there was time for Thomas & Ann to squeeze another child in (!), but I’m not sure I believe that?  (Ann actually died of TB ~ Is there a general ‘survival’ time once diagnosed and could this reduce her chances of conceiving?)

I can’t order a birth certificate for Emma because I can’t find her ~ I have also checked the birth indexes for Emma ‘Fernihough’, just in case she was the child of Sarah and her pervious husband ~ but there is no record of that either.

So, you see my predicament!

If this were your tree ~ where would you place Emma?

Many thanks in advance for any 'help' you can give.

Chelsea 

[Necromancer]

What does she reveal on her marriage Cert - in terms of age and Fathers details  - does it reinforce everything you found on the census years ?

[Chelsea]

Hi Newfy,

Nothing on the marriage cert provides any further clues than what I know already ~ age puts her at being born in 1856
and her death cert puts birth year at 1857!

Thomas is shown as the father.

 

[Arranroots]

There is a birth on Staffs bmd of a Mary Emma FERNIHOUGH in 1853, but it is in Ipstones (I am not clear how far that is from Leek?)

When did Sarah's husband die?

How well-off were the family?  If they were in need of support there might be a record in the Guardians Minute book - sometimes they paid for the lying-in of a woman from a poor family.

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Chelsea]

There is a birth on Staffs bmd of a Mary Emma FERNIHOUGH in 1853, but it is in Ipstones (I am not clear how far that is from Leek?)

When did Sarah's husband die?

How well-off were the family?  If they were in need of support there might be a record in the Guardians Minute book - sometimes they paid for the lying-in of a woman from a poor family.

kind regards, Arranroots 

Hi,

My task for today is to try and find out a bit more about Sarah ~ finding who she married and when he died is what I am looking for now.

There is a family of Fernihoughs living in Ipstones ~ Sarah & Joseph ~ but they are not the ones I am looking for.

A couple of things I should add, although not sure how important it is....

Sarah (ROGERS) is actually living with Ann Goddards sister (Hannah) on the 1841 census?!?

There is also another Sarah (a daughter of another of Ann Goddards sisters) who appears to be born around the same time (c1824) and also marries a Fernihough (Joseph ~ but not be confused with the Ipstone Fernihoughs!!). I have their marriage cert so I don't believe the two Sarah's are the same....but something keeps 'niggling' me about it 

Will update with more info on Sarah's husband when I find it.

Many thanks for your replies  so far   Even I'm getting confused reading back my posts ~ hope they make sense!!!!

Chelsea 

[Arranroots]

Hi Chelsea

My head is spinning, lol!!

Let us know on this thread when you come up with something & we will try to help!

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Chelsea]

Ok ~ I'm back!

I have just searched the indexes from 1841 - 1853 for a marriage between Sarah Rogers and a Fernihough.

It produced 1 marriage of a Sarah Rogers marrying in Leek which was in 1847. However, I cross referenced on that quarter with the name Fernihough and got nothing. So I checked FreeBMD to see what they had for the 1847 marriage. That comes up with 3 names ~ George Hulme, George Sigley & Ralph Tunnicliffe.

So, I thought maybe Sarah Rogers had another marriage prior to Mr Fernihough. So, again I have checked any marriages for Sarah Hulme/Sigley/Tunnicliffe for years 1848 - 1853......Nothing in Leek and the few that matched the name in other areas of the country did not cross reference with a Fernihough.

I even checked marriages from 1837 - 1840, even though Sarah appears as a "Rogers" on the 1841 census ..... Nothing!

So, not only am I struggling to 'correctly' place Emma with the right set of parents, I have now hit a brick wall trying to find any info about one of her potential mums!! 

Any ideas most gratefully welcomed.

Chelsea
 

[lizdb]

Dont know if I am helping or confusing the issue furthetr (!) but there is a Mary Goddard born Jul/Aug/Sep 1858 in Leek area.

This could be either:
a) Emma registered under a different name but for some reason then went through life being called Emma
OR
b) another child of Thomas's second marriage, meaning Emma was not the youngest as you thought
OR
c) a complete red herring nothing to do with your famliy at all!!

[heywood]

It is confusing and I might be adding to it here- Chelsea forgive me if you have this! You became interested in Sarah and I can't see 1851 mentioned here.

Firstly - 1861 has Andrew and Joseph Ferneyhough lodging with Ann Goddard and siblings including your Emma.

1851 has a mixed group of people - all interrelated

Class: HO107; Piece: 2008; Folio: 326; Page: 17
Clerks Bank Leek
Sarah Hall head 86 yrs widow formerly silk doubler b Leek
Hannah Mayer daur 43 yrs widow silk doubler b Leekfrith (?)
Sarah A Mayer grandaur 26 yrs unmarried silk winder
George grandson 20 yrs silk twister
William grandson  16 yrs  engine turner
Sarah granddaur 1 yr
Sarah Fernyhough grandaur widow 27 yrs silk winder
Andrew gt grandson 3 yrs
Henry Goddard grandson unmarried 20 yrs silk twister
all born Leek

This makes you wonder who is Joseph Ferneyhough's father if Sarah is a widow in 1851?

I really feel as though I have not helped at all here but sometimes these trees need a lot of pruning!
heywood

PS 1841- Henry seems to be a son of Thomas and Ann