Frederick James Allen Born Mitcham 1897

[doverrog]

Hi. I'm having problems with locating further info about the family of Frederick. I believe that after leaving Mitcham Frederick became a Sergeant Major in the Army, serving at Cockermouth in Eastern England and later at Gosport. I'm told he had 20 children of whom I know the names of these - Frederick James, Ethel, Reginald, Albert, Robert and Ida. I believe the son Frederick James was born in Mitcham in about 1897 and married twice. This Frederick had two children, Alec and Barbara, by his first wife and five children by his second wife (could this have been Winifred Cawley - a bakers daughter from Coulsdon?), Leonard, Iris, Edward, Roy and Derek. Could anyone help with any further information please?
I would love to find the name of Frederick's wife. Could it have been Minnie Jones?
Also the names of the two wives of Frederick James and birth dates and places for any of the children.
There seem to be quite a few Allens which adds to my confusion.
All help would be really appreciated.

[nanny jan]

Hi,

I can find a Frederick James Allen (b 1897 Mitcham) on 1901 census transcripts living with dad Frederick, mother Minnie and sister Ida (aged in Mitchum.

See if I can spot Frederick and Minnie's marriage.

Nanny Jan

[nanny jan]

Well I've spotted 2 possibles:

1891 Minnie Wilkins in Kingston (Middx/Surrey border)

1892 Minnie Sims  St Saviour Southwark (London/Surrey border).

Best bet is to find a birth cert for Frederick jnr!

Nanny Jan

[doverrog]

Many thanks nanny jan.
On looking at the census I see that Minnie was born in Prestwood Bucks. I've searched for her there and now believe her to be Minnie Jones. However I can't find any marriage record.
The mariage index on Free BMD doesn't have anything for Frederick Allen (born app 1865) and Minnie Jones.
Also I can't pin down any marriages for the son Frederick James (born app 1897) and either of his two wives. I've taken a leap of faith with Winifred Cawley as I know she was a bakers daughter from Coulsdon and she fits to the right dates and fathers' profession but no marriage record and I really don't know about his first wife.
I can't request a marriage certificate without finding the date as there are too many Allens to request coming up on free BMD.
So stll rather stuck.

[doverrog]

Hello again. I seem to have got somewhere at last. Thanks for all previous help.
This time I'm still trying to identify the first wife of Frederick James Allen.
All I know about her is that she gave birth to two children Alec, the eldest, and Barbara who the lady died in giving birth to.
I can't find any records of the mother or the two children but I believe that they both emmigrated to Australia.
Although Frederick was born in Mitcham, the family moved around and I know that his parents lived in Cockershall in Cumbria and Gosport when his father was in the army.
Can anyone help at all?

[doverrog]

Hello again.
Following more research I've revised this Fredericks' birth year to 1887. NOT 1897. I've discovered an error in the 1901 census transcription which gave the 14 year old Frederick as a "Rev" instead of his second name of James.
This record ties in with the right place of birth as Mitcham. I would love to tie down the father who was also a Frederick Allen. Believed by grandson (Derek Victor) to have come from Irish descent.
This Frederick was at one time a Sergant Major in the army and he was based at Cockermouth which is in Cumbria in Eastern England between Workington, on the coast, and Keswick. Later at Gosport.
However my main "suspect" at the moment is Frederick J. Allen born abt. 1867 in Walthamtow and shown as a baker up to and including the 1901 census. This does fit as son Frederick James (born abt 1887) is known to have married a bakers' daughter.
The problem I have is that I can find nothing about Frederick the elder being in the Army. I've looked at the National Archives site and it seems that it is both complicated and probably very expensive to try and find the Service Record for Frederick the elder.
Can anybody advise or help me please?
The second issue is that I know the son Frederick James Allen (b.abt 1887) married twice. His first wife had two children, Alec and Barbara, and died giving birth to Barbara. I've been unable to find the name of this first wife or any record of the births of Alec and Barbara. I have the name of the second (Winifred Mary White) who I believe he married in 1921.
My hope is that if I could discover where and when Frederick (b.abt 1867) was based it would help to find the sons' first wife and possibly the births of his first two children by her.
With fingers crossed,
Roger