Samuel Clulo - where did he go?

[Valda]

Have you checked the more common spellings of the surname such as Clulow and Clelow or even Cluio (the spelling of the surname on his father's marriage)?
Have you found Samuel's birth registration? How was his surname spelt on that? Given that you have only found him on one census was his name registered as 'something' and then Samuel or just Samuel? If you put in Samuel Clulo in FreeBMD it will only search for Samuel as a first name not a second.

Regards

Valda

[kooky]

Valda,
 thanks for message.I do not have any record of Samuel's birth[see original post]
In my research I have come across 20[NOW 22] spellings of CLULO and I have used them all in my pursuit of Samuel.I also put Samuel in the 1871 census search in Ancestry, with no surname b. Birmingham about 1850 and looked at hundreds of names!

[Valda]

Is that because Samuel's birth was registered in the surname Bryan and not Clulo?

Births Sep 1850
Bryan  Samuel     Birmingham  16 313

1851 census HO107 2051 folio 500
Clement Street Birmingham  Warwickshire 
John Bryant 58 Birmingham Head  Married Engine Fitter
Betsy Bryant 57 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Wife  Married Domestic Duties
Betsy Bryant 16 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Daughter  No occupation
Ann Bryant  23 Darlaston, Staffordshire,  Daughter Unmarried 
Samuel Bryant  4mths Birmingham Grandson 
two households away
Thomas Bryan 34  Darlaston, Staffordshire, Head Married Engine fitter
Mary Bryan  26 Birmingham Wife Married Domestic Duties

1861 census RG9 2177 folio 62
1 Court Gorton? Green Street Aston  Warwickshire   
John Bryan 68  Birmingham, Warwickshire, Head Married Engine Fitter
Betsy Bryan 67 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Wife Married
Thomas Bryan  34 Darlaston, Staffordshire,  Son  Widower Engine Fitter
Emma Bryan  6  Birmingham, Warwickshire,  Granddaughter 

Regards

Valda

[kooky]

Valda, interesting thought! If your theory is correct why is he Clulo in 1861 census?
Also Ann Bryan/Clulo/Hyett was born in Birmingham not Darlaston Staffs.

[Valda]

Birmingham is Ann's birthplace on one census - the 1861 census (have you found her on any others?). It doesn't make it necessarily her correct birthplace, since the census is only as good as the information given by the informer. Betsy/Elizabeth Bryan the elder gives Darlaston as her birthplace on the 1871 census. Her daughter Elizabeth born Birmingham seems a perfect fit age wise for Betsy junior born Darlaston on the 1851 census. What father's name and occupation do the sisters Elizabeth and Ann give on their marriages?

You don't tell census enumerators your business if you don't feel it necessary to do so, so there is nothing to stop you giving the information Samuel was a legitimate Clulo (which might indeed be the surname he was known by at the time - after all there is no reason to believe he wasn't Samuel's son - though it appears Ann might have had a brother also called Samuel, so the boy might not have been named for Samuel Clulo) as opposed to some longer explanation about wife's illegitimate child.

ANN BRYAN 
Christening:  20 JUL 1828   Saint Lawrence, Darlaston Near Wolverhampton, Stafford
Father:  JOHN BRYAN  Mother:  ELIZABETH 

Regards

Valda

[kooky]

Valda, more thought provoking info.!
I suppose my next move is Samuel Bryan's birth cert.

I have an Ann Bryan in the 1841 census with the LINE family aged 15,b.Warwickshire in Pritchett St. Birmingham.

Also have marriage ref. for Samuel Bryan and Louisa Augusta Jones Dec.qu. 1868 Aston.This of course may not have father on it if he was illegitimate!

I was wanting to find Samuel Clulo originally because most of my research is about the Clulo family, and I thought I may find descendants.

Have Samuel Bryan in 1861 census in Thorpe St age 10 with Elizabeth Bryan age 55 and Emma age 20.Samuel is described as son. I do not think that Samuel could be in 2 different families and locations simultaneously!

[Valda]

I had seen the other Samuel but could not find him on the 1851 census (perhaps he also, if born by then, is in another surname - I don't presume he was born legitimately - maybe maybe not - the 1861 census is not conclusive). I had thought the marriage to Louisa was more likely to be him and not Samuel Bryan/Clulo. If this Samuel was also born illegitimately his marriage certificate would prove nothing!

The first step is knowing whether Ann and Elizabeth Bryan on their marriages state their father was called John and he was an engine fitter. If that is the case it tends to prove the hypothesis (I think you can prove hypothesises you can't prove theories) that the 1851 census entry is correct.
Once that is proved it is up to you whether you chance the birth certificate. However, even if it was your Samuel the certificate probably wouldn't show the name of the father. The 1851 census entry would be enough evidence to show that whoever was the father, Samuel was born illegitimately before his mother's marriage.
Legally you can be known by any surname you want, but since Samuel was born before the marriage he would always have been illegitimate. It wasn't until the C20th that a subsequent marriage legitimised children born before their parents weddings (laws are never retrospective).

There seems no evidence so far, that if Samuel survived in whatever surname he choose to use in adulthood, that he had any close contact or even contact at all with the Clulo family.

Regards

Valda

[kooky]

Valda, thanks for message.
On Ann Bryan and Samuel Clulo's marriage cert.July 31st 1851, Ann was living in Clement St and her father is John Bryan,Engine Fitter. This all fits!
 I am awaiting marriage cert. for Elizabeth and Charles Hyett.
Kooky

[Valda]

The marriage information confirms the 1851 census (census night 31st March) and Samuel's birth as a Bryan, but his isn't necessarily the birth registered in September quarter 1850 - that might be a little old for him. As he was 4mths old (if correct) on census night you would expect a December quarter registration for his birth not September.

Regards

Valda