Helen Johnston, Helen Johnston and Helen Johnston.

[plays54]

Hi,

Can anyone out there help - I'm confused about the identity of a Helen Johnston.

1. Vital records show the following -

1861 Census - Glasgow - Helen Johston - age 22 - born Luss, Dumbarton, domestic servant, living as lodger with family McCormick. (This would suggest a birth year around 1838/39).

Also, in the 1861 Census record there is an entry for a Helen (age 5) - born Luss, Dumbarton, as  a daughter of the McCormick parents. However unable to find a corresponding birth record in GROS data. Can only find an 1857 birth record for a Helen McCormick (illegitimate) in Glasgow Central (not for Luss, Dumbarton) - mother Margaret McCormick (The wife's name in the MCormick family was Margaret - but this could be coincidence). (Entry also appears on IGI Index). The 5 year old Helen does not appear in the 1871 Census.

1862 GROS Data - Marriage Record - Helen Johnston - age 22 - married John McCormick - age 23 - parents James Johnston (deceased) and Janet McMillan. (This would suggest a birth year 1839/40)

1907 Gros Data - Death Record - Ellen Johnston - age 66 - married to John McCormick - parents James Johnston (deceased) and Janet McMillan (deceased). (This would suggest a birth year 1840/41)

2. IGI Data

Search returns only one Helen Johnston with parents James Jonston and Janet McMillan and she was born 18 Nov 1826 (!!!) in Kirkpatrick Durham, Kircudbright, Scotalnd (!!!!). All her brothers and sisters recorded in IGI were born between 1810 and 1820.

Search returns only one Helen Johnson (without "T") born in Luss Dumbarton in 1938 with father James Johnson and mother Jean Mulholland(!!!).

If anyone out there researching the McCormick or Johnston families originally from Cumbernauld and Luss respectively can help???

Regards,
plays54

[MonicaL]

Hi plays54

The only Helen showing in 1841 in (Luss) Dumbarton in the right age group looks to be the daughter of the James and Jane you found on IGI as the other children match the sibling entries on IGI. The father James is showing as b. 1811 (with the usual rounding down for the 1841 Census) and b. in Scotland. The mother is simply showing as Mrs. which is not much help! Another Johnston family seem to be living with them, headed by a Duncan Johnston (also b. Scotland and b. 1806) and Elizabeth.

It doesn't help that Helen and John McC called their first daughter Margaret (after John's mother I assume), then Jane, then Janet.

Helen was consistent in both her MC and DC on her mother's name, odd that nothing at all is showing. Unless father died young and mother remarried, there is no death entry on SP for a Janet McMillan/Johns*on* that seems to fit.

In respect of the other Helen entry in the 1861 Census, did John McC have a sister called Margaret? Parents may have passed off g/child as daughter for the 1861 Census? If daughter Margaret then went on to marry, the child Helen would have gone with her and new family (there's no relevant death for a child between 1861-71 that would fit her).

Regards.

Monica

Added: The James and Duncan Johnstons are both showing as State (Slate?) Quarriers.

From the 1851 Census index searches on SP, there are two Helens showing in Dumbarton age 9-13, one in Kirkintilloch and the other in Luss.

[MonicaL]

Hi plays54

How frustrating! The Kirkintilloch entries are showing as 'No Image'. At least two entries I've searched for:

Jean, 40 (searched for J*)
Helen, 9

Not sure if relevant, both with same GROS Ref: 498/00 008/00 020

Monica

[plays54]

Hi Monica,

Thanks very much for your efforts. I continued with my searches and came across the following:

The IGI data I mentioned Helen Johnson without the "t" - well the IGI marriage record for father James shows Johnston with the "t" but for a related search of children using father and mother name only you have to drop the "t".

Anyway I also found the 1841 and 1851 GROS census data for Luss which shows father James and daughter Helen (her ages tie in with the birth date circa 1838) and other children names tie to the IGI data. The GROS census lists show the name correctly as Johnston. So I am fairly certain this is the correct family.

John McCormick's father Archibald originally came from Mull and would have passed through Luss on his way to Cumbernauld where he married Margaret Walker. When you look on Scottish maps Luss and Cumbernauld are fairly close and both north of Glasgow(one north west and the other north east). I think it would have been fairly common around this time for people from both these communities to be moving back and forth between them.

The only puzzling thing now is the father and mother names given on Helen's marriage and death records. I have obtained both from Scotland's People and they both say James Johnston and Janet McMillan. However as they married pre-1855 I can only find an IGI entry for a couple in Kirkcudbright and this is no where near Luss or Cumbernauld.

The 1851 Census shows Mrs Johnston as Jean and this ties with the IGI marriage data for a James Johnston and Jean Mulholland and the children names that appear in both IGI birth and GROS census records.

Also, the Census records show that James Johnston came from Ireland, and wife Jean came from Dumbartonshire.

Young Helen aged 5 in the 1861 census??? I am not aware of James McCormick's parents Archibald McCormick and Margaret Walker having any daughters - only two sons - Archibald and James show up on IGI searches.

Again thanks for your effort.

regards,
plays54

[MonicaL]

Just a couple of  more comments from me!

Don't be so concerned about the spellings of the surname Johnston (Johnstone/Johnson etc). For the period of time we are talking about, spellings were not rigid. This is why IGI provides variants of first/surnames on search results (not a 100% though, sometime you still have to search by batch code to pick up on all possible variations). With Scotlands People, it is obviously down to you to put the wildcards (*/?) on your searches.

On the issue of Helen's mother, I have some concerns that it shows Janet McMillan on her marriage cert. Less concerned about the death cert. info as sometimes people made mistakes of this type when reporting deaths (even children of the deceased). The fact that she herself stated her mother's name in her marriage in 1862 to be Janet McMillan is something that would concern me. There is only one family in Luss that would fit though, which is the one you have found.

Just out of interest, what is Helen's father's occupation showing as? Does it match the occupation of the James J. in the 1841 and 1851 Censuses?

Regards.

Monica

[plays54]

Monica,

To answer your question re James Johnston (Helen's father)

Her GROS marriage record states occupation as Labourer.
Her GROS death record states occupation as Agricultural Labourer.

The GROS 1841 Census shows Slate Quarrier
The GROS 1851 Census shows Slate Quarrier.

I cannot find a James Johnston in the 1861 Census for Luss (or Dunbarton county). Helen's GROS marriage record from 1862 does say he was deceased and mother was still alive. Also I could not find a 1861 census record for Jean Johnston his wife but there was an entry for an Allan Johnston age 13 - Helen had a brother Allan age 4 on the 1851 census record. However no image for the 1861 Luss Census was available. To correspond with that I have found a GROS death record for a Jean Johnston(e) maiden name Mulholland who died 1866 in Luss - unfortunately no image was available - so unable to check if she was widow of James Johnston.

To go back to the young Helen Johnston from the GROS 1861 Census for the McCormick family with whom Helen Johnston (age 22) was boarding, I now reckon the census record shows the age as 5 months and not 5 years - the word "months" is not too legible and is written in the profession column. The census record states she was born in Luss same as Helen Johnston the boarder. From GROS Data there is a birth record for a Helen Johnston born Luss in November 1860 and the mother is given as Helen Johnston. Again no image is available.

However this would not explain her disappearance from the 1871 Census data for the James McCormick/Helen Johnston family when she would only have been 10/11 years old.  Subsequently, James and Helen had a daughter Helen born in 1872 (according to IGI Index data). There is insufficient data to go on to find out what happened to her - there are no deaths for a young Helen Johnston between 1860 and 1872 in either Lanark or Dunbarton - however there is an entry for a Helen Johston born 1860, age 13, who died in 1873 in Old/West Kilpatrick Dunbarton - again no image available from GROS records.

However, the mystery regarding Helen Johnston's parents names as they appear on her marriage and death records still remains even although the Luss connections appear stronger than ever.

Regards,
plays54

[MonicaL]

The Helen child who died in 1873 is this one:

HELEN JOHNSTON  Birth:  09 SEP 1859      Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
   
Parents: Father: JAMES JOHNSTON    Mother: HELEN COLSTON    

Image available on SP today. You might want to retry the ones you looked at yesterday on SP with 'no image' as they may well be ok today. (This happened some weeks ago on SP when all search results were showing 'no image').

I had misunderstood who the young Helen was, I thought she was a McCormick which is why I was refering to a possible sister for John being the mother. If she was a Johnston and your Helen was in the household with her, the possibility is that she was her illegitimate child. What happened to her is a bit of a mystery (along with Helen's mother's name  ).

Regards.

Monica
   

[plays54]

Monica,

The 1873 death record for a Helen Johnston wasn't available on line this morning. Are you saying that that record (GROS 501/00 004) is for the Helen Johnston born in Ayrshire??

On the 1861 Census there is no surname given for the young Helen - she appears in the line above Helen Johnston thus implying (and stated under relationship) that she is the daughter of the head of household Archibald McCormick - however no birth record on SP for a Helen McCormick to either father or mother (Margaret Walker). As Archibald and Margaret already had two sons in their twenties by this time it seems unlikely (not impossible) that they had a daughter so late on. It seems likely that it was Helen Johnston's illegitimate daughter from the GROS data (449/00 0021) and also confirmed in IGI (C114991) born in Luss in November 1860. she doesn't appear in the 1871 census for James McCormick and Helen Johnston - so yes a mystery as to what may have happened to her.

Do images often "become" unavailable on SP? I was wondering why so many of the records I was searching for these Johnston's were unavailable.

Regards,
plays54

[MonicaL]

This is the record I looked at this morning, which matches your refs. From the death entry, I found the corresponding birth entry on IGI to those parents:

1873   JOHNSTON HELEN   age 13   @ OLD OR WEST KILPATRICK/DUNBARTON   GROS Ref: 501/00 0004

In respect of the 'no image' issue, I have only come across this problem once before, last month, but it was resolved by next day.  Have a look at this link here on RootsChat: www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=189718.0. Double check the search results you did yesterday that had 'no image', hopefully they should today show that they are available to view.

Regards.

Monica