Thomas, Wrighton CNS

[foggyjano]

I am trying to find out more info on William Thomas born 1836. The 1881 census says he was born Wrighton CNS Wales but nothing else.. he was married to Lucy Pearson from Bilston... but I have come stuck on both of them.
It might help if I knew what CNS meant?  Any ideas please

foggyjano

[jorose]

I would think 'CNS' might mean 'county not stated', and might be a transcribers note to explain that 'Wrighton, Wales' was all that was listed.  In the 1871 census his birthplace is just given as 'Wales':

(in Bilston, Staffordshire, RG10/2952 folio 91 page 4 ):
6 Walsall Street Lane
William Thomas, 30, Miner /Coal/, b. Wales
Lucy, 31, b. Bilston
John, 12, b. Bilston
Emma, 7, b. Bilston
William, 4, b. Bilston
Allen, 2, b. Bilston

The Cullis couple, Richard and Emma in 1881, are Richard Cullis and Emma nee Thomas, so probably his daughter Emma (although why they're listed as 'boarders'...)

I had a quick look but I'm not having any luck finding the marriage either on freeBMD or via StaffordshireBMD - you'll probably have to look through the images on Ancestry or somewhere else, come up with a list of Lucy Pearsons married Staffordshire about the right time and then see if you can match any of them up with a William Thomas.

[Wendi]

Hi foggyjano, and a Warm Welcome to Rootschat 

I agree with jorose, I think it's a transcribers note as it's not in the same handwriting as the rest of the page.

Wendi 

[Arranroots]

I don't know of a Wrighton in Wales - more to the point, I can't find one on Genuki.

I wonder if it should say Knighton (Radnorshire)?  It could be that the enumerator misread the handwriting when transcribing the housholders schedule?

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Valda]

1871 census RG10 2952 folio 91
6 Walsall ? Lane Bilston  Staffordshire  
William Thomas 30  Wales Head  Married Miner (Coal)
Lucy Thomas 31  Bilston, Staffordshire,  Wife Married
John Thomas  12 Bilston, Staffordshire, Son  
Emma Thomas 7  Bilston, Staffordshire,  Daughter  
William Thomas 4 Bilston, Staffordshire, Son  Bilston  
Allen Thomas 2  Bilston, Staffordshire, Son

I think 12 year old Ellen on the 1881 census may well be 2 year old Allen on the 1871 census, with an error by the census enumerator probably in 1881.  

Births Jun 1869
Thomas  Allen     Wolverhampton  6b 557

On the 1881 census Lucy was aged 44. A widow in 1891 she was 53 and in 1901 she was 57.

1861 census RG9 1996 folio 25A
6 Matthew Street Wolverhampton  Staffordshire  
Lucy Thomas  21 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire,  Boarder Married
John Thomas  3  Willenhall, Staffordshire,  Boarder
In the household of Thomas and Sarah Davis - Sarah born Bilston aged 26

possible marriage if Sarah was Lucy's sister (her eldest child was 5 on the 1861 census)

Marriages Jun 1854
Davies  Thomas    Dudley  6c 2
either  
Pearson  Sarah     Dudley  6c 2  
or
Haycock  Naomi     Dudley  6c 2

1841 census HO107 1001/2 folio 36 page 21
Salop Row Bilston Wolverhampton  Staffordshire  
Joseph Pearson  30 not born Staffordshire Forgeman
Maria Pearson 30  Not born Staffordshire
Edward Pearson 10 Staffordshire
Mary Pearson 8  Staffordshire
Sarah Pearson 6 Staffordshire
Hannah Pearson 4 Staffordshire
Lucy Pearson 2 Staffordshire

same family in 1851 minus Lucy

HO107 2021 folio 109
Salop Row Bilston  Staffordshire  
Joseph Pearson 44  Burley, Worcestershire, Head Married Puddler
Mariah Pearson 43  Blows Green, Worcestershire,  Wife  Married
Mary Pearson  18 Bilston, Staffordshire,  Daughter  
Sarah Pearson  16  Bilston, Staffordshire, Daughter  
Hannah Pearson  12 Bilston, Staffordshire,  Daughter
Ann Maria Pearson  10  Bilston, Staffordshire,  Daughter
Eliza Pearson 6 Bilston, Staffordshire, Daughter
Harriet Pearson 2  Bilston, Staffordshire,  Daughter

William Thomas may have been born in Corwen but the only marriage on FreeBMD of a Lucy Pearson to a Thomas seems to be to a Samuel.

Regards

Valda

[foggyjano]

thank u so much for such quick responses...wow i am so happy.

William and Lucy moved to Pendlebury, i am thinking to coal mine.. an area of pendlebury used to be nicknamed "little Bilston" i too think the wrighton could mean Knighton. but i was not sure because of the cns. 

was it common for the census people to get things wrong as on the info i was working from thomas was 45 and lucy 44 but they also had a son listed Harry 16. they also had ellen 12, hannah 9, noah 7(my gt gt  grandfather). benjamin 2, samuel 7. but no harry is listed at the address in bilston? i wonder if he was really a brother of william Thomas and that is why it is not showing in bilston address or could harry be John???

on noah birth cert which i have lucy couldnt write as it has the mark of lucy with a cross.

Your info has given me more to look into, thank you so much.  I am new to all this and hve been going off some birth certs i have passed down to me. .  i will now try to work out the missing pieces stated previous and work on that William was from Knighton.

so glad i joined this group.. thank you

[Valda]

WILLIAM THOMAS 
Father:  RICHARD THOMAS 
Spouse:  LUCY THOMAS   
Father:  JOSEPH PEARSON 
Marriage:  29 SEP 1862   Moxley, Staffordshire
Husband Age at Marriage:  22   
Wife Age at Marriage:  22

I'm wondering, if this was their marriage, whether it was a first or second attempt at marriage. I cannot find a suitable couple for the earlier Lucy Pearson/ Samuel Thomas marriage in 1858 - not sure whether that marriage is a red herring or not.

Regards

Valda

[foggyjano]

Thanks Valda....I am not sure if they are on a 2nd marriage... on the 1881 census they are 45, 44 and one of their eldest child on the census is ellen who was 12, which means Lucy was 32 when she had her.. also on the census is Harry who is 16 which means she would of been 28 when she had him... the plot thickens doesnt it...but there is Emma Cullis aged 18 was she the daughter but not noted down correctly if so Lucy would of been around 26... which i still think is old to get married in those days?

Without matching up the exact year Lucy and William got married I am a bit stuck on how long there were married before they had their first child..

Ohh and i am only at the beginning...heheh

[Valda]

Children are not necessarily all born after a marriage takes place - today or then, so when people marry cannot be gauged just from the ages of their children. John would appear to be Lucy's eldest known child born circa 1858/9 when she was 18/19.

If the 1862 is a correct marriage there are various reasons Lucy married in the surname Thomas.

It was the one she was using for proprietor's sake even though she wasn't yet married (but then why marry in a church away from where the couple lived as Lucy Thomas when you could just have married as Lucy Pearson in Moxley?)

They had already married but the first marriage had an error - William's name given as Samuel on the certificate not William (a clerk's error on the original certificate which the illiterate couple did not spot)

Lucy had married first a relative of William's - another Thomas - in this case Samuel Thomas.

If the Samuel/Lucy marriage is a complete red herring, the last two reasons cannot be correct.

The ages on the 1862 marriage are about right. I was looking at the 1861 census where I had given Lucy's age as 31 - it should read 21 (Friday evening tiredness creeping in after a long week - it is now corrected). The marriage certificate will give you Lucy's status on her marriage e.g. widow or single. her father's name (Joseph Pearson) fits the Pearson family in Bilston who certainly had a daughter called Lucy (1841 census). The marriage certificate will give Joseph Pearson's occupation to see if it matches up with the census information.

Regards

Valda