Joseph Abbot and Alice

[Gorwyn]

I am looking for information on Joseph Abbot and Alice, they had a son b 1825 in Pateley Bridge named Thomas, he must have died as they had another son named Thomas b1829 in Heptonstall WRY.
Any help appreciated.
Gorwyn

[PaulineJ]

Playing devil's advocate, how can you tell that these are the same married couple?
Your earlier posts say "Its from the IGI". Did you look at original records to say, compare occupation(s)
Does Thomas' later marriage give a father even, You don't make it clear at all.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,199152.msg998271.html#msg998271

Pauline

[Gorwyn]

Hi Pauline

This is all the information I have at the present time-

Thomas Abbot b4 Feb 1829 Heptonstall.
Parents of Thomas were Joseph Abbot and Alice, this is all that is shwn on the IGI.

Thomas was married to Rachel Atkinson Sept quater 1851 from marriage certificate, but the surname is given as "Habbot" with the H, and his father is given as Blakey Hartley. It is possible that his parents were dead.
Thomas was living with Blakey Hartley and his wife Betty in Colne Lancs. as shown in the 1851 Census. His surname has reverted back to Abbott and his age is 22.
In the 1861 census he is shown as being married to Rachel and having three childen all living in Barnoldswick where the children were born. Again his surname is show as Abbott.

Hope this helps. I can not find any trace of a Joseph and/or ALice Abbott in the 1841 or indeed of Thomas.

Regards
Gorwyn

[PaulineJ]

Then with that information, I think that you should investigate Thomas being the illegitimate son of Betty. Eliminate that possibility before going any further...

Pauline

[Gorwyn]

Hi again Pauline

I have just rechecked my information on the possibility of Thomas being illegitimate, Betty Hartley [Brown] was born 1789 in Colne Lancs and married Blakey Hartley  31 Aug 1822 in Colne, [see IGI] They would have been married 7 years when Thomas was born. Why would the names of Joseph Abbot and Alice be down as the parents of Thomas in the IGI?
The name "Hartley" keeps cropping up in the family eg my Gt Uncle was named Hartley Abbott b1891. so there seems is a definite connection with the name Hartley but how? The spouses maiden name has been used on a number of occassions for a son's christian name, so far I have not been able to find a spouse with the name Hartley.
I don't suppose this is going to help you [or me], maybe I will never find Joseph or Alice.

Gorwyn

[PaulineJ]

Eliminating possiblilities,

What Heptonstall baptisms, (if any) are on the IGI? (local society www.cfhsweb.co.uk)

Looking for kids of Blakey and Betty,
   How many did they have, was there a 'spare' slot for Thomas to have been born?
   He does after all, claim Blakey as his father.......

   Initially, you don't have a defined birthplace (or age) for Thomas Abbot.
   What birthplace(s) and age(s) does he give as you tracked him through certificates and census?
   You HAVE to bear in mind that the IGI is not complete, maybe you have to go to untranscribed records.

Pauline

[Gorwyn]

Hello Pauline.

Here is the IGI record of the christening of Thomas, I hope the information gets through ok. -

Christening:      
31 MAR 1829      Heptonstall, Yorkshire, England
Parents:Father:     JOSEPH ABBOT
              Mother:       ALICE
Batch No.:      Dates:      Source Call No.:      Type:   Printout Call No.:      Type:
C007482     1813 - 1847     0990611, 0990612      Film     6909606      Film

The marriage certificate of Blakey Hartley Abbott, a son of Thomas and Rachel, has the father as Thomas Hartley Abbott. I am still trying to find where the Hartley came from.

I don't have any family for Blakey Hartley and Betty.
The 1851 census for Colne has Thomas aged 22 b Heptonstall and living with Blakey Hartley and Betty, 1861 census for Barnoldswick has Thomas aged 32, married b Heptonstall, the 1871 for Brierfield has him aged 42 b Heptonstall.
I can't find him on the 1841 census or any sign of Joseph and Alice.

Many thanks for taking the time to help, I really appreciate it.

Regards
Gordon

[PaulineJ]

Really you are at the stage where rather than 'prove' something,
you need to disprove all other reasonable possibilities SO:

Your candidate baptisms for Heptonstall come up with "Joseph & Alice Abbot".
View the original parish record (on film/fiche) to firstly verify that the entry truly exists,
then explore siblings/ deaths.

Since Thomas Abbot has ended up in Colne 1851 then that would be the second place to explore earlier parish records for and of his siblings/ deaths of Joseph & Alice..

Blakey & Betty:
What kids are recorded on Parish records as their issue?
Where are they in 1841?

Pauline




 

[Gorwyn]

Hello Pauline

Thank you for the information, I will get stuck into this as soon as possible. We have a LDS church locally where I will be able to look at the film but of course it takes time. Being here in Australia makes it a little more difficult as information is not always available locally.
You obviously have a lot of experience and I appreciate you sharing it with me.

My wife and I wish you and yours all the Blessings of Christmas.
 
Regards
Gordon