Daughter or neice?

[Ceci]

My GG Grandmother was Eliza Ann WINTER born in Melbourn Cambridgeshire in 1839. Her birth certificate records her name as Elizabeth, but the Parish record of her baptism and census records show it as Eliza. She had a younger sister called Elizabeth, born about 1847 and both appear together on the 1851 census and again in 1861 with Eliza now married. She married Elias LYONS in 1860. 

I think this is my Eliza on the 1901 Census in Rotton Park, Birmingham.   
Eliza A LYONS, Head, 62, Widow b. Melbourn Camb
Arthur E BRISCOE, son in law,   26, Cooking range fitter, b. Warwick
Ethel BRISCOE, Daur, 26, b. Tenby, Pembroke
Maud E BRISCOE, Grandaur, 4, b. Birmingham

I have been unable to find a marriage certificate for Ethel LYONS and Arthur BRISCOE, but found one for Ethel MILLER & Arthur Edwin BRISCOE, Cooking range fitter, in Birmingham in 1896. Ethel’s father is William MILLER, Commission agent.  I have a birth certificate for Ethel born in Tenby 1875, parents are William  MILLER, Bell hanger, & Bessie MILLER formerly WINTER. These and findings on the 1881 & 1891 census suggest that Ethel Briscoe was the daughter of Eliza’s sister Elizabeth, and not hers as recorded in 1901. 

Census 1881 Tenby St Mary in Liberty, Pembroke
William MILLER, Head, 43, Bell Hanger, b. Haverford West, Pembroke
Elizabeth MILLER, Wife, 34, b. Melbourn, Camb   
Ethel MILLER, Daur,    6, b. Tenby, Pembroke

Census 1891 Tenby St Mary in Liberty, Pembroke
William MILLER, Head, 50, Sadler & Bell Hanger, b. Haverford West, Pembroke    
Elizabeth MILLER, Wife, 43, b. Melbourn, Camb
Ethel MILLER, Daur, 16, b. Tenby, Pembroke   

I would love to know what other people think.

Ceci

[trish251]

What an interesting puzzle - These were the only possibilities I found for your family in 1881 - Are they the correct ones? (living apart)

 Elizabeth A. LYONS   Servant   M   Female   40   Milbourne, Cambridge, England   Nurse Dom Serv
Lillingstone Dayrell, Buckingham, England 
 
  Elias LION   Serv   M   Male   51   Haslingd., Cambridge, England   Horsekeeper (Inn Serv.) 
Dwelling   76 Castle St.
Cambridge, Cambridge, England

One thought was that perhaps they could not live together & the younger sister raised the daughter Ethel - but this seems most unlikely as FreeBDM has no record of an Ethel Lyons born at the right time & place, whereas Ethel Miller born 1875 is listed (and FreeBDM specifies 100% for this time coverage) - so I think your idea of niece rather than daughter is probably correct - perhaps the enumerator thought this was easier to write than niece's husband??.

Trish

[Ceci]

Thank you for your reply. I think that the 1881 census records that you found are probably correct especially the one for Eliza/Elizabeth, but why she is down as Elizabeth, I don't know.

A relative of mine has told me that Elias Lyons died young, but so far I have been unable to find his death. I know he was still alive in 1871 as I have found him on the census with his father in Croydon cum Clapton, Cambridgeshire, which is where Elias was born, but it is not far from Haslingfield. In 1861 he was also with his father and Eliza and their daughter Sarah Florence Lyons were with her father in Great Shelford, so it seems that they did live apart. My relative has also told me that she thinks Sarah was their only child.

Regards Ceci

[casalguidi]

With regards to Elias LYONS, it might be worth bearing in mind that it really was quite common for the family (children etc.) to be told that a parent had died when the marriage had failed - unlike society today, contact with the "other party" was, more often than not, severed completely.

I have a living relative who spent their entire premarital life living in the next (small) street to their grandparent yet was forbidden contact (from what side I am not sure) and never attempted otherwise!

Time and time again, have I heard and read of similar tales.

[Ceci]

Thank you for that. You may well be right about Elias.

On the other side of my family, one of my father's cousins was never allowed to meet her Grandparents and now wants to know why not. It seems that for part of their lives, they ran a pub and her Grand mother 'drank too much'. Her father was a Congregationalist Minister and disapproved of alcohol and he told her that her Grandfather had committed suicide. His death certificate gives the cause of death as erysipelas and valvular disease of heart. Whether alcohol contributed to his health problems I don't know, but it doesn't sound like suicide. He also died in a mental hospital which may have been another taboo.

Now my father's cousin  is eager to learn as much about her grandparents as she can to try to fill what she sees as a big gap in her life.

Regards Ceci