Missing in 1871 census

[DS]

Hi Jayne

I think the two entries that you refer to are correct but there are two more which, I think, tie it all together.

In 1841 have a look at HO107/353/12 Folio 62 Page 23. I think you should find Josiah's wife and children. He must have just been at his mother's house on the night of the census. 

I notice that you did not mention 1861. It took me a while to find it because of the spelling of his name as Joshia Brookes. Try RG9/2692 Folio 20 Page 34.

Does that help ?

DS

[JayneA]

Hi DS,

sitting here waiting for midnight to happen in 1hr 20mins!!! Most people out partying, I am playing on Ancestry and Rootschat! (ha,ha) Couldn't think of a better way myself, I will have a look now and get back to you.

I am very grateful for all your help.

Regards

Jayne

[JayneA]

That definately looks like them, however in the 1861 it has Josiah being born in what looks like Worscestershire, is that what you noticed too?

Aren't you clever? I am amazed that you can find out these things, I was hitting my head against a brick wall. It makes sense that he could have been spending the night at his Mothers, I never even gave it a thought. I will google the Missionary Buildings now and see what I can find out, I looked at Wolfe street and found them as Tenement buildings, 3 stories high, although I don't think they would have occupied the one house, maybe part of it, but who knows?

Only 45 mins to go now before 2007.

Hope you have a good one

Jayne

[DS]

Jayne

Sorry.  I forgot to include this before.

Death

1881 West Derby JFM quarter 8b 383

Josiah Brooks Aged 75

Have a bonzer New Year and then Bring on the Newton's if you still need to do so.

All the best

DS

[skb]

DS you are a genius.

I know where to come next time I'm stuck with something.

Happy New Year all (6.5 hours to go)

[DS]

Oh Sharon

  I have spent a lifetime successfully concealing that information from the world by both word and deed and you have now blown my cover. 

If I were truly what you said, then many others on this site would be well into the ethereal levels and, in any case, it was your findings that initially "opened the door". 

Nonetheless, it was very nice of you to comment.

All the best

DS

[JayneA]

Hi DS,

Well you asked for it so here it is.........

JOHN NEWTON (B) 1824 ASTLEY LANCS MARRIED ELIZABETH NEWTON 1820 FROM LYMM CHES.
CHILDREN: SAMUEL 1848 LANCS ALFRED 1851 LANCS SARAH J 1857 LANCS BETTY 1865 LANCS & JOHN 1869.

I have found all the details for them in the 1881,1871 & 1861, (I used your logic for the 1871) ALFRED NEWTON (B) 1851 is my GGrandfather, his Father is JOHN, Alfred was a Lodger on the 1881 and lo and behold he lived next door to his parents, so this helped me a lot.

Where I am having trouble is the 1851, I have found John working as a servant and there is a woman called ELIZA HEWARD, however, the ages don't add up and also this Eliza is from Durham, but on top of this, John should at least be married to Elizabeth by now they have Samuel born 1849. Elizabeth is known to be at least 4yrs older than John in some of the census info. so I searched 1851 for both Samuel and Elizabeth and got no results.

In 1841 I have just about given up! There are so many entries for John Newton and anyone of them could be him as they just say born lancashire, I looked under the Aston-under-lyne entries as on one of the results this came up, but even then there are at least 5-6 entries.

Any ideas would be welcomed and even if I have to give up, please just tell me! (ha,ha)

What a start to the New Year.

Take care

Regards

Jayne

[DS]

Hi Jayne.
Well it is worse than you thought, I think. 

I have got them in 1861 (RG9/2971 Folio 43 Page 32) and also in 1881 (RG11/4024 Folio 77 Page 7).

However I do not think that the family you have found in 1871 (RG10/4070 Folio 117 Page 16) is the correct one. They do look very similar, but there is no Alfred and that Samuel is the wrong age. John and Elizabeth are from the wrong place and their jobs and location look dodgy.

However the real clincher is that in 1861 the family lived at 14 Chesnut Street, Cheetham. If you have a look at 1871 RG10/4063 Folio 76 Page 77 you will find Samuel and Alfred living at 14 Chesnut Street, Cheetham.

Therefore the additional children which you mention (after Samuel and Alfred) are not yours, I am afraid.

I have not found John and Elizabeth on the 1871 census (yet) and I have not yet tried the 1851. I will have a go later after some sleep unless someone else finds them in the meantime.

What do you think it says for John’s occupation in 1861 and 1881 on the original documents ? 

DS

[JayneA]

Hi DS,

Thanks for your reply, I have put in the reference numbers you provided and Ancestry keeps coming up with completely different people (Andersons & Bagshaws) I think they have a problem as when I typed in the name etc., it does come up with those references you gave??

I have found this reference for Samuel in the 1871 when he is married to Sarah RG10/ 3911 Folio 51 Page 13 It seems to be the right Samuel, born in Astley and in the 1881 census I have them married and living with John and Elizabeth.

I can't find Alfred in the 1871 anywhere, so this all looks like a lost cause, I am baffled by the whole thing now and don't know if I am 'Arthur or Martha' to use an Aussie expression!

On the occupation question, I had another look, in 1861 it looks like Johns occ is BUTLER??
only because I looked on the same page for writing examples, and on the top line surname BATH, the B looks the same and lower down the page occ MANTLE MAKER, looks like the TLE in BUTLER. On the 1881 census I think his occ is AGENT F***ION, could this be FASHION?? I have no idea.

Thanks for your help, you mustn't have got much sleep last night by the looks of things with the reply you sent earlier, it was the middle of the night for you.

Hope it was a good one.

Jayne