Author Topic: Marriage lookup circa 1846  (Read 2713 times)

Offline whisky

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Marriage lookup circa 1846
« on: Friday 29 December 06 00:24 GMT (UK) »
Trying to find the marriage of Percy William Hewgill/Emma Susan Knollys, anytime from 1846, Percy b. 1813 Great Smeaton, North Yorkshire, Emma b. abt 1819 Uxbridge, Middlesex. They spent time on a farm near Glamorgan.
Jones, Denbighshire, Liverpool, Sheffield
Knollys/Lowe Middlesex,Hitchin, Gloucester
Saunders, Guildford Surrey
Evans, Southampton
Hewgill, Great Smeaton,
Muir, Graham, Coulthorpe, Argyle, Renfrew, Glasgow
Hammond Ayrshire, Dumfries
Perrin, Kent
Page, Nottingham
Trotter, Cranstoun, Dewar, Berwickshire

Offline PaulineJ

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Re: Marriage lookup circa 1846
« Reply #1 on: Friday 29 December 06 00:48 GMT (UK) »

I looked at 1861 nad couldn't work out why you picked 1846 for a marriage?

their first kid(s) appear 1838, Woolwich?

Pauline
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Offline Valda

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Re: Marriage lookup circa 1846
« Reply #2 on: Friday 29 December 06 15:51 GMT (UK) »
Since Percy was a sergeant in the Royal Artillery and his daughter Emma was born in Belgium circa 1844 (according to the censuses), could Percy's second marriage have occurred abroad.
Have you searched for Percy's army record in The National Archives because that would tell you where Percy was stationed during these years. From the baptisms of his children, it certainly seems the marriage may have occurred in Belgium.

MARY SOPHIA HEWGILL 
Christening:  15 SEP 1843   British Chapel, Boulogne-Sur-Mer, Pas-De-Calais, France
Father:  PERCY WILLIAM HEWGILL 
Mother:  JANE 

ELLEN HEWGILL 
Christening:  31 JAN 1846   Saint John And St Mary, Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Father:  PERCY HEWGILL   
Mother:  EMMA 

EMMA HEWGILL 
Christening:  11 JUL 1847   Saint Mary, Warwick, Warwickshire
Age at Christening:  3   
Father:  PERCY WILLIAM HEWGILL 
Mother:  EMMA SUSAN 

Regards

Valda
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Offline whisky

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Re: Marriage lookup circa 1846
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 02 January 07 00:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi Valda and Pauline,
Thanks for all your help, I don't think they were married in Belgium because Emma Susan didn't obtain her divorce from her 1st husband until early 1846, in London; I have the records, both she and Percy eloped to Belgium leaving behind their respective spouses, and their first born Emma - my 2nd grandmother - was born in Belgium.
Perhaps they never married, maybe because Percy was never divorced, as later census records show Jane lists herself as married.
Whisky
Jones, Denbighshire, Liverpool, Sheffield
Knollys/Lowe Middlesex,Hitchin, Gloucester
Saunders, Guildford Surrey
Evans, Southampton
Hewgill, Great Smeaton,
Muir, Graham, Coulthorpe, Argyle, Renfrew, Glasgow
Hammond Ayrshire, Dumfries
Perrin, Kent
Page, Nottingham
Trotter, Cranstoun, Dewar, Berwickshire


Offline Valda

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Re: Marriage lookup circa 1846
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 02 January 07 01:00 GMT (UK) »
Pre
'An Act to amend the Law relating to Divorce and Matrimonial Causes in England. [28th August 1857]'

Divorce was extremely rare in this country since it could only occur through an individual Act of Parliament and therefore it was limited to extremely wealthy people. Between 1831-1857 there were 118 successful Acts of Parliament for divorce. Of those 2 were Peers of the Realm and 67 were Esquires (58%). 4% of these divorces were filed by women - all of them failed since the odds against women being able to file for divorce was severely stacked against them, even after the 1857 Divorce Act.

'Before the Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Act of 1857 divorces could only be obtained in England through a cumbersome process involving a suit by the husband against another man for 'criminal conversation' (i.e., for compromising his
wife, and therefore diminishing her value, so that he could claim damages), then an ecclesiastical divorce which did not allow the right of re-marriage, and finally a private Act of Parliament which separated the parties ex vinculis matrimonii (from
the chains of marriage) and did allow re-marriage. The 1857 Act was designed (in effect) to allow moderately wealthy men to divorce their wives. A woman could be divorced on the simple grounds of her adultery (her adultery threatened his ability to pass his property to his male heirs), whereas a woman had to prove adultery aggravated by desertion (for two years), or by cruelty, rape, sodomy, incest or bigamy. The husband could claim damages against the adulterous third party, the wife could not. There was no provision for consensual divorce...'


It would be possible for Emma Susan to obtain a judicial separation which was the ususal choice until free legal aid was granted for divorce after the First World War. A judicial separation would not allow for couples to marry again. Or if the marriage was not consummated or illegal in some way (though if it was illegal - there would be no need for a divorce) it would be possible to get an annulment through the church court - a long time consumming and fraught process.

What papers do you have that would seem to indicate Emma Susan's first marriage was ended in some legal way in London in 1846?

Regards

Valda
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Offline whisky

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Re: Marriage lookup circa 1846
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 03 January 07 00:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi Valda,
The papers I have - Emma Susan's first husband took her to court for "criminal conversations" - and the delay was caused by Emma and Percy shooting through to Belgium and her first husband had to wait until they returned to England. The 1st husband also sued Percy and was awarded 100 pounds for non enjoyment of his wife, he also wanted to clear his name of the child that was born in Belgium (my 2nd grandmother) and not allow the child to have any claim on him or his property.
I believe that both parties were not poor.  Percy left his wife and 3 children, the youngest only a few months old and his 1st wife never remarried, from what I can find.
Emma Susan and her 1st husband Jasper Byng Creagh didn't have any children. Jill   
Jones, Denbighshire, Liverpool, Sheffield
Knollys/Lowe Middlesex,Hitchin, Gloucester
Saunders, Guildford Surrey
Evans, Southampton
Hewgill, Great Smeaton,
Muir, Graham, Coulthorpe, Argyle, Renfrew, Glasgow
Hammond Ayrshire, Dumfries
Perrin, Kent
Page, Nottingham
Trotter, Cranstoun, Dewar, Berwickshire

Offline Valda

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Re: Marriage lookup circa 1846
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 03 January 07 07:15 GMT (UK) »
So not quite equating to a divorce though one might have occurred later. Have you checked for the court case in a newspaper like The Times - do you have exact dates?
Have you checked for a will for Jasper? If he was still legally married to his wife when he died then he may have stated that she was cut off from his estate. The same with any will Percy left. If he had money you would expect him to leave a will and if his children were legally illegitimate, he would need to leave a will or settle on them during his lifetime. Illegitimate children had no claim to their father's estate and neither would Emma unless by the time of Percy's death she was legally married to him.

Regards

Valda
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Offline Valda

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Re: Marriage lookup circa 1846
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 03 January 07 20:15 GMT (UK) »
Yes you are right there was a divorce by Act of Parliament.

The Times June 6th 1846
House of Commons 5th June Second Readings
Creagh's Divorce Bill

House of Lords
Records of the Private Bill Office, House of Lords
Local, Personal and Private Acts, 9 & 10 Victoria I
Private Act (Not Printed), 9 & 10 Victoria I, c. 45 - ref.  HL/PO/PB/1/1846/9&10V1n275  - date: 1846
An Act to dissolve the Marriage of Jasper Byng Creagh Esquire with Emma Susan Weldale Creagh his present Wife, and to enable him to marry again; and for other Purposes therein mentioned.

The Times 26th February 1847
Married
At the 23rd inst at Trinity Church Regent's park - Captain Byng Creagh, son of the late Colonel Creagh CB to Charlotte Jane Minchin daughter of John Minchin Esq her Britannic Majesty's consul at Fayal.

Marriages Mar 1847   
CREAGH  Jasper Byng     Marylebone  1 226   
Minchin  Charlotte Jane     Marylebone  1 226

I see Jasper married three times in all with his third wife dying in 1936 - over 30 years younger than him I think?

Therefore Emma was free to marry, but if Percy's wife did not commit adultery and was blameless then Percy would have had no grounds for divorce under either an Act of Parliament, or the later Divorce Act of 1857. Percy's wife would have had grounds for divorce through adultery and desertion, but might either not be financially able to divorce Percy or wish to do so, since she might very well have believed if a couple married they were bound to each other until death. This was certainly the church's view.

If Percy left a will it should specify quite carefully the beneficaries.

Regards

Valda
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Offline whisky

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Re: Marriage lookup circa 1846
« Reply #8 on: Friday 05 January 07 00:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,
Thanks very very much for all your info, I think Percy's first wife Jane was blameless, and on what you say, I don't believe a divorce was obtained between Percy and Jane, hence the reason I can't find a marriage for Percy and Emma Susan.
How would I find Percy's will?  He died in 1863 and his son by Jane, named after his father, died in 1867. 
Percy and Emma Susan brought up Percy's son - perhaps Jane didn't want anything more to do with any Percy William Hewgill's!!!
Jane kept the daughters.
regards, Jill
Jones, Denbighshire, Liverpool, Sheffield
Knollys/Lowe Middlesex,Hitchin, Gloucester
Saunders, Guildford Surrey
Evans, Southampton
Hewgill, Great Smeaton,
Muir, Graham, Coulthorpe, Argyle, Renfrew, Glasgow
Hammond Ayrshire, Dumfries
Perrin, Kent
Page, Nottingham
Trotter, Cranstoun, Dewar, Berwickshire