Dead End

[SandraC]

Righto

Allen Thomas NOT DEAD - he reappears in 1891 census aged 22 years born Bilston Staffs, living Worsley & married with infant son named William

RG 12/3151 folio 9 pg 12

So the question is where is he in 1881?

Keep on looking!

SandraC

PS Marriage is Q2 1890 Clifton St Ann's to Esther A Peacock

[foggyjano]

On the 1881 census that you have, Richard Cullis is married to an Emma aged 18

This marriage was Q4 1880 Salford [Pendlebury Christ Church] & the bride was Emma Thomas.

This gives you one positive connection back to the 1871 family in Bilston.

I'll keep on worrying at it for a bit & see what happens

SandraC

mmm the plot thickens.. i have just spent the last hour searching all the census for bilston in 1871.there were two couples with that name but they didnt have any children named harry or a ellen....so where were they when the cenus was taken cos they were only 6 and2 about that time..arghhhh

I didnt realise that Richard and Emma married at christchurch and that is the "family" church...so that is a good positive, thank you... sooo Emma Thomas, who was she?

Did the people taking the cenus sometimes miss out 2nd names?

Allen, is defo a boy then, will go and have a look at him and his family see if i can tie him to lucy and william.

My husband thinks i am mad.. but i only have 10 days left on 14 day trail on ancestry.. can feel a subscription coming on..lol...

[foggyjano]

Allen has a son called William 1901... but i cannot tie them to my william and lucy at this stage...but it would stand to reason that Allen would name his first son after his father though

Been searching now for a Ellen Thomas getting married working on around the age of 20.. a few possiblities....  I have got Hannah Married, so that is one child married off... now need to marry off Ellen and find Harry??

[foggyjano]

You know the more i think about it, the more it can make sense... I know for a Fact Lucy was married to 2 Mr Thomas, my aunt confirms this, but the 1st Mr Thomas his first name is not confirmed.

I am now wondering if 1871 is Lucy married to the first mr thomas and she had Allen, Emma and John and william.

That could mean Harry, Ellen and Hannah were William Thomas children from his first marriage?

I might be getting dead ends cos there are two Mr Thomas's married to Lucy and their could be two lots of children from 1st marriages, which is why all the names do not match up in 1881 and 1891 census.

[foggyjano]

ok now know the william & lucy thomas parents of william and lucy are NOT my relatives.   they all show on 1881 census still in bilston. so that gets rid of tht family from mt search. mt thomas family are in pendlebury by 1881

therefore i need to look more at william and lucy with children john, emma and allen!

[foggyjano]

Ok, i think i am now looking for a

William Thomas born Knighton, Wales
Spouse not known.

Children all born in Bilston

Harry Thomas born appx 1865.
Ellen Thomas born around 1869
Hannah Thomas born around 1871 

I Think this is William Thomas's first family, then he met and married Lucy Thomas nee Pearson
who already had children by a previous Mr Thomas

I think the family in 1881 is their families joined and that is why there is a difference in the ages of the children

[foggyjano]

Righto

Allen Thomas NOT DEAD - he reappears in 1891 census aged 22 years born Bilston Staffs, living Worsley & married with infant son named William

RG 12/3151 folio 9 pg 12

So the question is where is he in 1881?

Keep on looking!

SandraC

PS Marriage is Q2 1890 Clifton St Ann's to Esther A Peacock

i cannot find him 1881 either, or 1871

I searched all of bilston for Hannah, Harry and Ellen in 1871 arghhhhhhhhhh

I bet everyone has stopped reading my thread...lol.. I am just sounding off my findings or non findings as it seems to be..............

[SandraC]

Hi again

Just been out for a quick blow round the block - not a walk in this wind!

Right, back to basics:

freeBMD marriage of Lucy Pearson to Samuel Thomas Q3 1858 Wolverhampton

1861 census Lucy Thomas mar 21 b Wolverhampton with a son John aged 3, no sign of a husband. RG 9/1996 folio 25A pg 7 Wolverhampton East, 6 Mathew Street, lodging with Davis family.

IGI marriage of William Thomas [father Richard] to Lucy Thomas 1862 Moxley, Staffs - BMD has Q3 1862 West Bromwich vol 6b pg 783, both parties aged 22 years.

This would make John the son of Samuel & Lucy & the others the children of William & Lucy

1871 census: can't find Harry either - is he really William Henry??

1881 census: left with the idea that someone said Allen & enumerator wrote Ellen as the ages match & there is no baptism for an Ellen

Q2 1883 marriage at Pendlebury Christ Church of a Henry Thomas to Mary Jones or
Q4 1883 Albert Memorial, Miles Platting, Harry Thomas to Annie Singleton

Personally prefer the first one as you have a connection to Pendlebury XC in any case & in 1891 census:

RG 12/3151 folio 19 pg 32
76 Grosvenor St, Worsley
Henry Thomas; head; mar; 25; coal miner; Staffs Bilston
Mary do; wife; mar; 26; North Wales
John H do; son; 7; Pendlebury
Elizabeth A do; dau; 5; Pendlebury
Emma J do; dau; 5 mo; Pendlebury
William Roberts; boarder; s; 20; coal miner; Staffs Bilston

See what you think but the only definitive answers here might be from the certificates 

SandraC

[foggyjano]

Wow Sandra, you were  brave going out in this wind... it is raining very heavy here too, just discovered my bedroom window is leaking.. been mopping up and salvaging my carpet for about an hour...lol...Hubby is full of man flu so all plans for "partying" tonight has fallen through, messed things up... so quess what i will be doing tonight???  rubbish on tv tonight....

Yes, yes yes to what you have come up with... you have a little more than me though, I have been following up the Samuel route, but didnt confirm his marriage to Lucy..

I discovered Samuel, and he was in prison in st marys stafford in 1861... so will try and find out what happend to him, but obviously Lucy had to move in with the davies family cos he was in prison - Sarah davies matches the same dob as Sarah pearson.. both lucy and sarah father Joesph pearson....taking John with her. she then met and married William... marriage shows joesph as Lucy's father but didnt know it named williams father as Richard Thomas.. which falls into the Cullis Connection (richard thomas was Richard Cullis stepfather in bilston)..sooo Richard moved to Pendlebury and married Emma Thomas, she could of been younger sister to William or actually could this really be ellen? not sure if the dates fit - got paper all over...lol...

so was Harry really henry, i know they used to change their names around in them days..so like Henry idea - will look to match that. All  the Thomas family lived on grosvenor street, when Hannah Thomas married John Lawton, they too lived near Lucy, who was widowed by 1901.

Yes I agree Ellen could be Allen as age does fit and cannot find a Ellen, or could ellen be emma.. Emma was born in 1863.. so a few years out for Ellen? so possible not

oh god finally fitting pieces together, so excited....can see the pictures unfolding

This has been very kind of you doing this for me on a windy sunday afternoon... it is nice to think while i have been searching you have been doing it as well.....and i think between us we have come up with some good confirmations

like you say it is now time to order some certificates to confirm who is who.... roll on pay day...

Happy New Year and thank you once again