Grove(s) Inveraray

[janglaschu]

Can anyone tell me anything about Mary Grove(s) (b.c. 1820, Inveraray)  who later moved to Glasgow? My brick wall at the moment. Any information on her parents, siblings, etc. much appreciated, thanks,

Janet

[MonicaL]

Hi Janet

It might help people doing searches for you if you added some more info on Mary: who/when she married, names of children. Do you have her in the censuses?

Regards.

Monica 

[janglaschu]

Mary married James Thomson in Barony (Lanarkshire)  in Dec.  1841 (GROS 622/00 028); I believe James died in 1858, but can't entirely confirm as the death record says 'married' but doesn't give wife's name. They had a son John b. 1847, and possibly others.
On the 1851 census I have James (cotton weaver) and Mary Thomson (age 30, says b. Glasgow) living in Bluevale Street, Barony, with children Janet (10), Helen (, Alexander (6) George (3) Joseph (1) and Agnes Thomson, sister age 35,nieces Helen and Elizabeth McNaught, sister Martha  Thomson (22) and nephew Alexander McKenzie (infant).  I have still to check out all these; son John doesn't appear, so not sure if this is the right family.
In 1871 I have a Mary Thomson, widow (age 51) and son Stephen, 20, living in St Luke's parish, Glasgow; here the census states that her place of birth was Inveraray. I need to make sure that I have the right person in each case, but the name is so common, it is proving a problem. I haven't found others of the right age who match up in the censuses, and I can't find a record for her birth in Inveraray. Any help to rule in/out any of these records appreciated, thanks.
My problem is, I think that after James's death, Mary may have remarried a Robert Allan; I have a death cert. of 1894 which I believe may well be hers, which gives her marriages to (1) James Thomson and (2) Robert Allan, and her parents as John Grove and Janet M.S. Ritchie.

[MonicaL]

Hi Janet

I think you may be looking at up to at least 2 familes unfortunately. Not sure if either of them are the right ones.

The Mary with son Stephen shows as living alone with just Stephen in 1861 in Calton Glasgow. You would think that given the ages of the children in the James and Mary family in 1851, some would still be at home:

Mary Thomson, power loom weaver, b. Tobermory Argyll
Stephen Thomson, 10 b. Glasgow


I think this might be the family of James and Mary that you found in 1851 in 1861:

James Thompson    39, engine keeper, b. Glasgow
Mary Thompson    39, b . Glasgow
Janet Thompson    20
Hellen Thompson    18
Alexander Thompson    16
George Thompson    14
William Thompson    9
James Thompson    6
Agnes Thompson    3
Elizabeth Thompson    1
Joseph Thompson 72 son (?! maybe father to James) sail maker, b. Glasgow

Address:  43 Struthers St, Calton Glasgow


The closest I can see to the births of the Agnes and Elizabeth showing in 1861 both with mother Mary HUNTER:

AGNES THOMSON  Birth: 10 MAY 1857 Bridgeton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

ELIZABETH MCNAUGHT THOMSON  Birth: 16 MAY 1860 Calton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland


What is the direct line that you are following up? Is it John Thomson b. 1847?

Regards.

Monica


   

[janglaschu]

Thanks Monica, yes, it's John I'm following up (or back!). His marriage record (1868) gives his parents as James Thomson, pattern weaver (deceased) and Mary M.S. Grove.
I'm still trying to untangle this lot, they have me stumped!

[MonicaL]

Janet

Mary Grove's 1873 MC to Robert Allan gives different parents than her DC (sometimes more reliable given it's information she gave herself). Father William Grove, cotton weaver, and Agnes Mathieson, both deceased. Witnessnes John and Mary McKellar. Both Robert, joiner journeyman,age 61, and Mary, age 56, show as widow/er.

What was the occupation of Robert Allan as showing on Mary's DC?

Have you got John b.1847 in any of the later censuses to confirm  birth place?

What was John's occupation showing as in his MC and his wife's name?

Sorry about all the questions, just trying to place the family 

Regards.

Monica

[janglaschu]

Hello again,

Mary's DC shows Robert Allan's occupation as mill wright.

Her son John Thomson is listed on the 1871 census as born in Bridgeton, and the 1881 and 1891 censuses just as as born in Glasgow.
His occupation in his MC is wood sawyer, in 1871 as bobbin turner, in 1881 as wool dyer and in 1891 as general labourer (I believe all to be the same person though, as wife Joanna (Stewart) was born in Edinburgh, and children's names and ages are consistent (though their address changes in each, possibly kept moving house because of further additions to family? All addresses are in Bridgeton/Calton area, adjoining.)

thanks,
Janet

[MonicaL]

Hi Janet

Mary Grove's MC 1873 to Robert Allan shows as joiner, so that could fit with  millwright in the DC you have found in 1894 for a Mary.The parents are completely different though in both certs though (can happen, who reported her death?)

I have found a possible other family with a James and Mary, and a number of children which could fit your John. Father looks to have died by 1861:

1851:


James Thomson    35, engine worker, b. Ireland
Mary Thomson    32, b. Glasgow
William Thomson    8
John Thomson    6
Samuel Thomson    4
Mary Thomson    1

Address: 43 Orr Street, Calton, Glasgow


1861:

May Thomson (probably Mary on original?) 40, cotton winder, b. Glasgow
William Thomson 17, cotton weaver, b. Glasgow
John Thomson    14, Message Boy In Wood Turner Shop, b. Glasgow
Samuel Thomson    11
May Thomson    9
James Thomson    7

Address:  20 Savoy St, Calton, Glasgow


Maybe tracing one of the siblings here (Samuel which is less common?) would confirm whether you have the right family.

I can only see 3 boys for John and Joanna, on IGI. What were the names of their other children in order?

Regards.

Monica 







   

[janglaschu]

Hi  Monica

The death of Mary Allan ne Grove was reported by William Thomson, son, 52 Main Street, Bridgeton. There were lots of William Thomsons in Glagow in the 1891 census, I looked up one or two but they weren't the right ones (e.g. one born in Ireland, when I think all her children would have been born in Scotland - don't know of any Irish connection).

son John and Joanna's children were:
Henry b. c. 1869 in Glasgow
James b.c. 1871 in Glasgow
Robert b.c. 1876 in Glasgow
John b.c. 1879 in Glasgow
Catherine Thomson 1882
Samuel b.c. 1885
William (1886)
Andrew b.c. 1889

Re the 1861 census extract, I had wondered about this one as I have in 1858
the death in Bridgeton (20 Savoy Street) of a James Thomson, age 36, weaver, married, parents William Thomson, cotton weaver (deceased) and Mary Thomson MS Robinson (deceased). Informant; William Thomson, brother. I had wondered if this was my James, but wife’s name not given on death record.

Thanks for all the time you're taking with this, it's very good of you.