Kirkdale, Lancashire

[TreeDigger]

 

I would dearly love to receive information from the 1891 Lancashire census about the following persons:

George Haycock (1863, Wolverhampton, Stff; husband)
Frances/Fanny Prince ( 1869, Liverpool, Lncsh; wife)

They were married 1888 St Matthews, Toxteth Park, and had 4 children between 1892 and 1900, all born there.
A later child (1901) was born in Stourbridge it seems.

Any information pertaining to this couple (my great-grandparents) would be much appreciated!

[RootsChat]

Do you know of there address in the 1891 ?

[TreeDigger]

Wow, quick reply!  

All I know is that Frances/Fanny lived at Toxteth park in the 1881 census with her mother Ann and sister Agnes.
As George Haycock and Frances were married at St Matthew's in Toxteth Park, I would not be surprised if they lived there in 1891 as well, but I'm only guessing here.
I have no information whatsoever about my paternal family.
Due to my financial status (single mom of two) I haven't been able to get their address from the 1901 census, but they were listed under the civil parish of Kirkdale then, and George was a dock labourer at the time.
Hope this tidbit will help you, and therefor me. Thanks a lot for the effort!

[Chris in 1066Land]

Hi Treedigger

Am on my way to check the 1891 census for you

Watch this space

Chris in 1066Land

[Chris in 1066Land]

Hi TreeDigger

"I would dearly love to receive information from the 1891 Lancashire census about the following persons:
George Haycock (1863, Wolverhampton, Stff; husband)
Frances/Fanny Prince ( 1869, Liverpool, Lncsh; wife)"

I have just spent about 15 mins looking through the 1891 census on line for your Gearge and Fanny with the following results:
 
Looked for George Haycock there was 61 of them in 1891, but none of those 61 were born in Wolverhampton.
2 of the above 61 were aged 28 (born 1863)  and 1 of them was 27 – but non had a wife named Frances/Fanny.

There were only 11 Frances Haycocks, and the nearest to age 22 was a girl of 18 and one of 30
There were 12 Fanny Haycocks – but only 2 of those were wives - but they were aged 34 and 35

Looked at Ann Prince, (age unknown) but there were 152 of them – so didn’t go through them all, but only 1 was living in Toxeth Park (aged 30) and none were listed as being in Kirkland Parish.

You have got to remember that the 1891 census on line was transcribed by people whose native tongue is not english, so lots of transcription errors have occured - we now have to try and think how Haycock could have been wrongly transcribed.

Do you have any further info that might help

Chris in 1066Land

[TreeDigger]

 
First of all, thanks again for the trouble.
I knew this great-grandather of mine was elusive, but he seems to have a great disappearing act!

Some facts I heard from a distant relative I tracked down in Liverpool: George Haycock was supposedly born in Wolverhampton. The 1881 census lists a George Haycock, born there, as a naval seaman aboard the HMS Carysford which also coincides with what I heard. He apparently invented a breech loading device and had numerous courtcases regarding the patent.
His wife I'm told was indeed a Frances, but no last name was given. Through the bmd records I did find a marriage in 1888 for a George Haycock and Frances Prince. The names of their children appear in the 1991 census and also coincide with those I heard from the relative.
I was told all these facts years ago, and have since lost touch with the lady who helped me.

I do know for certain: George Haycock lived in Liverpool but originally came from Wolverhampton or surroundings.
His wife was named Frances or Francis. His son John Walter "Jack" Haycock was my grandfather, born in dec. 1901, uncertain where born. Jack had several elder brothers and sisters who were born in Liverpool. Jack married a woman named Emily Esther Rosewell (1905, Shepperton) which marriage is listed as having taken place in 1926 at St Athanasius, Kirkdale. Their son Albert John Radcliffe Haycock (my biological father) was born Dec 21, 1927, not known where born. Jack was an English teacher and a Scotts Guards man, presumably in that order.
I have even been so lucky as to have somebody check the Wolverhampton records, but no listing for George Haycock! This man is worse than Houdini ...
It looks like this branch of the family tree might become a dead stump, as I have tried to trace this man for years on end now.  
But I do appreciate your time and effort in this!  

[Chris in 1066Land]

Hi Treedigger

Went to have a look on the 1881 for the info on Ann Prince as below:

 Name    Relation   Marital Status   Gender   Age   Birthplace   Occupation   Disability
 Ann PRINCE     Head     W     Female     47     Liverpool, Lancashire, England     Charwoman      
 Fanny PRINCE     Daur     U     Female     12     Liverpool, Lancashire, England     Scholar      
 Agnes PRINCE     Daur     U     Female     9     Liverpool, Lancashire, England     Scholar      
 John CAIN     Boarder     U     Male     29     Liverpool, Lancashire, England     Laborer In Iron Works      
I then put ann’s details in the 1891 census aged 57, but only came back with one, but she is married with a young family; so not the one.

I put Agnes details in the 1891 aged 19 and it came back with 31 matches, so went through them looking for the words  Toxeth Park – found an Agnes as a servant; so went to have a look at it and found this:

RG12/ 2924/ Folio 94/ Page 31 - 29 Vickers Street, Toxeth Park, Liverpool, Lancs.

HAYCOCK Frances, Head, Marr, 23, (No occupation listed) born Lancashire
PRINCE Agnes, Servant, Unm, 19, (No occupation listed), born Liverpool, Lancs.

Why it didnt show up the first time - Frances is spelt as Francis

So, the big question now is - "Where was George" - Frances is shown as the head of household (3 families in same property) with Agnes for company I suppose.  Strange that niether of the women are shown as having an employment.

First thoughts now are that George was away at sea or in prison.

Whilst visiting the 1891 and typing this, I see that you have posted further details - this would possibly confirm that indeed George was at Sea.

Have posted the census entry below

Chris in 1066Land  

[TreeDigger]

  Wonderful!

This does confirm that Frances and Agnes were sisters, and this is indeed could be my great-grandmother.

Possibly Ann Prince was dead in 1891, or if remarried, known by another name. I would still like to find out who Frances' father is, will check Lancashire BMD for that.

If George was still at sea, wouldn't his name show up on board a vessel? That's how I got his details in the first place in 1881. Typing this I realize that it would mean searching the general census, and you only have the Lancashire part.

[TreeDigger]

I looked up possible matches for Frances' parents, and found a marriage between William Prince and Frances Powell in 1852, but in Salford, not Liverpool.

Could it be that Frances called herself Ann, and this was used in the census report? I do think the similarity in the names could mean a mother-daughter connection.
Also, Frances' mother was 35 at the time of her birth, so could have well been 18 at the time of her wedding and had more kids prior to Frances.