WILLIAMS boys of Watford

[wilfam]

looking for info. regarding my husbands g. uncles.  so far as we can tell they were reared in watford.  their parents were elizabeth mary (burgess) and henry john williams.

1) john francis r.j. was born in oakham rutland  1895
died rhuddlan flintshire wales 1989

2) arthur richard born in watford june 1900

we really have no idea of the lives of these brothers.     did they marry, have children ? also, we do not know when or where arthur died. when they were living in watford as children they lived on whippendale (whippendell) road.  also, we know they had a sister named violet l.s. (williams) brien and a brother (my husbands grandfather)  henry b williams that emigrated to the u,s,
many thanks for taking the time to read this.
cheers
williams fam.

[Keith Bateman]

Hi,

I presume you have them in the 1901 census?

If not let me know.

Parents were born in Somersetshire(?) and Canada I see - what a mixture!!

The trouble with the BMD is that you need some possible dates for any marriages after 1914 as each page just has a list of people with no "proper" index - so therefore it is impossible to go through everyone looking for your 2 people.

Where and when were the others born?

Cheers

Keith

[wilfam]

yes, we have them in the 1901 census. thank you. the bit about canada was rather interesting.  elizabeths parents went there newly married in 1860.  elizabeth and her sister were born there but then the family was back to england before she was 10.  interestingly elizabeth and her husband, henry john were living in canada in their later years.  but, enough of that!

well that is frustrating about the BMD.  so then should i try to get hold of church records in watford to see if a marriage is recorded there?  quite new at all of this and not sure what direction to take.

violet l.s. was born in watford, 1901 and henry burgess in watford as well, 1903.  i have copies of their baptism certs.

in 1972 my grand dad in law (henry b.) was contacted (by then living in maine u,s,) about violets death.  he typed a copy of the letter he sent to the coroner in ealing.  he asked them to try to contact john francis.  unbeknownst to henry, his older brother  john f . had already moved to wales.  i'm wondering if that is an indication that arthur richard had already died by 1972     sorry. rambling.  thanks for your efforts keith. 
regards, williams family.

[Keith Bateman]

Will have another look at your details in the morning - off to bed now - hope some-one else has more details when I wake up!! 

Nite

Keith

[Keith Bateman]

Right - morning has come and gone - but better late than never!! 

I realise you don't want to "overburden" me with all details but :

his older brother  john f . had already moved to wales.

How do you know this?

Have you got his death certificate from 1989?

Otherwise I am still "thinking"

Why is it easier to trace relations from 1850 than 1950!!??

Cheers

Keith

[Keith Bateman]

Hi,

I see that he has on his death index details his date of birth as 31/1/1895 - do you know if that is correct?
If it is it means there is at least some-one alive then that knew that!!

I had a similar dilemma for one of my relations - she lived to 100 and I thought "just for fun" I would send away for her death certificate.
On it was the name and address of her niece as the informant - and I wrote to that address saying that I hoped she still lived there and some minor details about me.
She wrote back by return saying she knew my mother 60 years ago!!

So check ALL minor details you have!!

I was just lucky - but if you don't try you will never know!!

Cheers

Keith

[Keith Bateman]

There is no record in FreeBMD of a death for Arthur Richard Williams (that fits!)- which means he most probably lived past 1915!!

Keith

[wilfam]

hi keith,
yes, we know that to be john f.r.j. s' date of birth 31/1/1895.  we found his date and place of death on the wales BMD.  we were confident it was him because it specifically said 'oakham rutland'  as place of birth.  also his name distinguishes him a bit. john 'f.r.j.'  we felt terrible to learn john was alive up until 1989. we would have initiated contact.   sadly, we didn't know he existed until after my grandfather in law died in 1994. 
so, by means of your experience, you're saying if i get hold of his death cert.  the person who gave the info. may be available for contact? make sense.  thanks for mentioning that. 
the arthur richard situation is even more frustrating but, as a recently discovered cousin encouraged, "keep plodding along my dear, you'll get there" 
thanks again for your time keith.
cheers
williams family.