auchtermuchty smiths

[bobgraham]

Great grandfather William smith had the brickworks in Auchtermuchty, Scotland. Mother and ancient uncle remember visiting the brickworks on holiday when young and there were always travelers camping in the grounds. They were apparently tolerated, even welcomed, as they visited the house for various things. It occurs to ancient uncle that there was a tie up between GGF William and the travelers. GGGF was also William Smith and listed as tilemaker on his death certificate.
Has anyone any possible connections with William Smith(ca.1800- ?) and William Smith ((ca.1822-1894) of Dunshalt, Auchtermuchty please?
bob

[bobgraham]

just had another chat with ancient uncle and he says Dunshelt and Prestonpans also figure in the story. Ring any bells?
bob

[An65]

Here they are on the 1891 Census:

Main St, Auchtermuchty, Fife, Scotland, 1891
(Auchtermuchty ED:3 Line:11 Year 1891)

William Smith 74 (1817) Retd Tilemaker, b. Prestonpans East Lothian
Janie Smith 31 (1860) Grandaughter b.Falkland, Fife

[bobgraham]

Thanks. I have them on the census's but no evidence to say they were Romanies and no idea of how or where to look.
bob

[An65]

I think your next step would be to try and uncover William Smiths baptism, hopefully at Prestonpans, and see what his fathers occupation was. That would probably be your biggest clue as to their origins.

[bobgraham]

Hi again.
I don't have a baptism but I have the banns for father william in 1821 and he is listed as labourer.
On young Williams death certificate, 1894, he is listed as "retired brick-work manager" and his father (cos scottish certificates give you lots more info than the english ones) is listed as "brick and tile maker (deceased)". Would you consider brick and tile making to be Romany type professions?
And of course it was the Romanies living at the brick works that brought up this speculation in the first place.
bob

[An65]

Whilst it might seem quite unusual for Rom to settle and take "gorja" jobs that early in the 1800s, I have seen it - so I wouldnt like to rule it out as a possibility. Sagey Heron and Righteous Gray settled at Kingsthorpe Northants, and they were named on the Heron Pedigree. So whilst Id hedge my bets saying he was probably a gorja, its possible he was a settled traveller. Now how you would be able to find out, I really dont know....

[bobgraham]

Many thanks for your help/input.
As an aside, we here in Cumbria ( but we still think as Cumberland) say gadgie for a flattie.  Where does gorja originate?  It is obviously the same root. Maybe we should start a whole new thread on regional Romany words.
Having said that is "flattie" a well known word for a non Romany?
bob

[An65]

I should perhaps add, that if it were me tracing this family Id be casting a sharp eye across all siblings/children/nephews/nieces any relation at all in fact, of this William, as its entirely possible that even if he was a non-romany, that his family married into the families that camped on his land, somewhere along the way.

Down here in the south, I havent heard the term "flattie". Gorja (many spellings), is a Rom word for non-Romany folks.