1871 Thomas H NOTLEY

[cathymcc]

Hi

Refershing to see someone with those sensibilities as opposed to us old genealogy ''lags''! 

It is easy to forget there were people who were born & died in the workhouse - easy to forget that they were real people with dreams and aspirations - and often their very survival was a miracle in itself? I do sometimes wonder what they dreamt of - a warm home and a regular wage coming in, I guess? I still dream of that!

Nearly everyone in Luton was in the hat industry - and 40 years ago my old grandad used to say:

 " Northampton makes yer boots and Luton makes yer hat''

None of Blake's ''Dark Satanic Mills'' in Bedfordshire - but certainly life was pretty grim for many, no doubt, and their very survival is tribute enough to their courage and fortitude - if I had been through what of some of these folk had - I am sure I would have curled up my toes and died!

But the folks on rootschat are ''wicked'', as my son would say, which means they are ''very good'' [in old-speak] and so helpful - and rootschat and the blood donation service shows us that there is hope still in this sad old world -

Climbing off me soap box now 

I hope you track 'em down - I am working on the NOTLEY -docker front in West Ham, Essex - and it may take a while but if he was an active trade unionist there may be records for him.  Do you have a death/burial for Thomas?

I think Elizabeth [Betsy] NOTLEY's son died [Alfred] who we see in 1881 in Luton?  See the freeBMD The 1891 census for Bedfordshire is complete  and online - google for ''freecen''

[Richard Knott]

I'm not sure why I put 'bonnet maker' - I certainly read it first as 'bonnet sewer' (and have changed my original posting), but even that is not clear.
Richard

[Richard Knott]

There appear to be three Elizabeths (and not enough Thomas entries!). The Elizabeth Nottley on freebmd could be any of them.

Samuel and Mary (nee Stevens) Notley married in 1836 and had children in Wilstead; their first child, in 1837, was Elizabeth.

1841: Wilstead: Samuel Knotley, 24, ag lab; b in county; not living with any family
1851: Wilstead: Samuel Nottley, 35, ag lab; Mary, 32; William, 12; Joseph, 10; b Wilstead
1851:Wilstead: Elizabeth Nottley, 12, (b Wilstead) is a nursemaid to another family
1861: Wilstead: RG9/992
   Samuel Notly (indexed as Notty), 47, ag lab, b Strudbrook, Suffolk
   Mary N, 40, wife, lacemaker, b Apthorn, Northants
   Elizabeth N, dau, 23, lacemaker, b W
   Joseph N, son, 20, b W
   Henry N, son, 7, b W
   George N, son, 3 b W
1871: Wilstead: Mary Nottley, 53, lacemaker, b Northants; Henry, 17; George, 13.

1841: Bedford Union Workhouse: Martha Nottley, 25, lacemaker; Henry, 5; Elizabeth 3; all b in county
1851: Wisbech Workhouse (Camb): Elizth Notley, 12, inmate, b Bedford
(why Cambridge? Anna Mary Notley, 21, governess, b Norfolk, is living in Wisbech, but no apparent connection).
1861: Luton: Elizabeth, 22, unm, bonnet sewer, b Bedford; Elizabeth, dau, 1
1871: Luton: Elizabeth Notley, 31, un, bonnet sewer, b Bedford; Elizabeth 11, Alfred, 3

1841: Bedford: Martar (?) Notley, 28; Thomas, 5; Betsy, 3; children b in county; mother b out of county
1851: Bedford: Thomas Notley, 15, (b Bedford) is an apprentice bootmaker
1881: West Ham
   Thomas H(enry) Notley, 45, dock lab, b Wilstead, Bedford
   (children Martha S(arah); Henry W(illiam))

The IGI shows Charles and Mary Nottley having children in Stradbrook (including Martha in 1813 and Samuel in 1814) before moving to Wilstead and having several more from 1816. It is not definitely the same couple, but the dates and history fit well. They seem to have married in 1803 and had children up to 1825.

The 1841 entries are a bit of a mystery with two Martha Nottleys having daughters b c 1838. The one in Bedford would seem to be Samuel's sister (with two illegitimate children). It is not clear how the Workhouse one is connected, if at all.

My guess is that the Thomas of the original posting is the illegitimate son (and brother to Elizabeth number 3) of Martha; Martha being the sister of Samuel.

We could do with finding:
a. Mary (Samuel's wife) + Elizabeth, William, Joseph. It is just possible that these are the same as the 1841 Martha, Thomas, Betsy; but it seems unlikely.
b. Thomas (+ Martha, Betsy) after 1841/51.

Richard

[Richard Knott]

This seems to be Martha later on:

Martha Notley m Jacob Baldry   Sep 1861   Hoxne

1871 RG10/1740  Hoxne
Jacob Baldry, 33, shoemaker, b Denington
Martha Baldry, 44, b Stradbrook, Suffolk (indexed as Sharnbrook)
William Baldry, 8, son, b Denington

No sign of any other children.
No sign yet in 1851/61.

Richard

[cathymcc]

Wow thanks, Richard, that has given me something to think about, the Hoxne link crops up time & time again [like Wilstead] but I do not want to take - it is a Pandora's box!

[Richard Knott]

The Martha marrying Jacob Baldry is a different one.
She is Martha Browning Notley, b 1827, Brandon, dau of Charles (jun) and Mary Notley, rather than the Martha , b 1813 Stradbroke, dau of Charles (sen) and Mary Notley!

It is difficult to know how many Charles and Marys there are.

Charles Notley m Mary Clutton (1803) Denington, Suffolk. With any luck these are all their children:

1803-05  Charles, William   Denington
1813-14   Martha, Samuel, Joseph     Stradbroke, Suffolk
1816-1825  Henry, Abraham, Elizabeth     Wilstead, Beds.

...with these being their son's children:

1825 - 1834   Mary, Martha Browning, William George Clutton     Brandon, Suffolk

Richard

[cathymcc]

Many  thanks

[Richard Knott]

It's always useful to know what's been looked at before:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=305a228b35a8f042574e4533785c28a0&topic=210284.0;prev_next=prev

No sign of Thomas in 1861 or 1871 I'm afraid.

Richard

[cathymcc]

Thank you for loooking - I expect he used another surname then but I cant think what it may be

cathy