Missing GRO entries and original certificates.

[cockney rebel]

Hi there all

 I have two questions on which I would love some answers or advice!

Years ago I read something about it being better to order certificates through the local registry office that had dealt with the event (BMD) at the time and not through the GRO.The advantage was something to do with having the original signature to compare with others at a later date and in the case of marriage certificates having the original witness names and not those sometimes erroneously copied down by a trainee registrar!

Is this true  and how do I go about ordering??

Second question is related a little to the first.

Has any one had experience of a BMD event being registered locally , but not  having being copied into the big books of the GRO ( and ie on Ancestry and Co)?
I`m on my third person for whom I have all the details  but the birth entry is not there.Their brothers and sisters are ,but not them.(All different years ,different places ,different names)
How can I find out,and perhaps order, without having to re-mortgage the house?

Grateful for any advice and shared experience

Rebel



 

[stanmapstone]

 The GRO has no access to the original records, whereas the local register office holds the duplicate copy of the marriage register book, and the original Birth and Death Registers.
In April, July, October and January, each registrar was to make a true copy of all entries in his registers, since the previous copy was made, and was to pass that copy to his superintendent registrar. The Superintendent Registrar was then required to send the certified COPIES of the entries to the Registrar General, these copies are known as 'the quarterly returns'. It is these 'quarterly returns' that are used to make the GRO Indexes. So they are copies of copies.
Not all Register Offices have the ability to produce copies of the original entries.

For the infinite variety of ways in which the marriage records have suffered from errors and omissions see "A Comedy of Errors or the Marriage Records of England and Wales 1837-199" by Michael Foster.

Stan

[mshrmh]

Stan has given you the comprehensive answer - here's a link to an article by Tony Foster (wonder whether he's related to book author Michael?) on the Lancashire FHS site
http://www.lfhhs.org.uk/help/factsh/lbmd.htm
I've always ordered from the local register offices, rather than GRO. I don't think many take orders online - I use post - Ģ7 +SAE and nearly always get the answer by return. Some councils have forms you can download on their websites or if you're looking in one of the areas where there is a countyBMD site (eg CheshireBMD) you can use the forms from that site.
Just one additional comment - some councils won't provide marriage certificates if you don't have the location as each church etc has its own register & they won't/can't search through dozens - not a problem I've had, but one I am aware of.

[Jebber]

May I add,  not all local offices have the facilities to photocopy their registers, so it is worth asking when you order a certificate, otherwise you will just get a copy of a transcription , the same as if you order from the GRO.

Jebber

[stanmapstone]

It is worth pointing out that the actual wording on a certificate from the GRO is significant. On a marriage certificate, for example, the words are "Certified to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a register of Marriages in the Registration District of ..." This differs from the wording of a certificate from a Superintendent Registrar, which is "Certifed to be a true copy of an entry in a Register in my Custody".
The GRO wording is not simply long-winded, as people may imagine, but is a careful and exact reflection of the mechanism underlying the GRO records. 

[cockney rebel]

Many thanks for all your answers.

I think I`ll just  have to give it a try at a local office ,in this case in Norfolk,
and see if  I can come up with a birth that isn`t registered at the GRO.

If I have no luck then itīs 7 quid down the drain ,
and if I have a bit of luck ,Iīll tell you all about it here on Rootschat.!!

Rebel

[mshrmh]

Rebel - the other advantage of local register offices is that they don't normally charge unless they can provide the certificate, so you may get your money back. I've certainly had mine back from two different offices when I've asked for a birth (several with same name/place but not the right father) and death (two possibles in adjacent areas, so had one cheque back).

[cockney rebel]

Wow!

I didnīt know that registry offices had souls!
Thanks for that extra info-...extremely motivating....my cheque will be winging its way on Monday morning..

Happy hunting

rebel