Bogglegill

[bougie]

   My Armstrongs were at Bogglegill , Canonbie in 1806 and then at
 Clofses,canonbie in 1819. Can anybody tell me where these places
 are exactly. Can't find them on any maps.
    bougie

[ricky1]

Hi Bougie
Canonbie is about 15 miles north of Carlisle beside the A7 road

ricky

[Walcha72]

Hi Bougie,

Could your Clofses perhaps be Closes (or Closses)?  I have seen 'ss' handwritten to look like 'fs' quite often.

If you go to this website:http://www.old-maps.co.uk/, then enter Canonbie you will get to a map from 1862.  On this map there is a Closes below the Cross Keys Hotel.  This is about half way across the page towards the bottom.

Are your Armstrongs any relation to the Park House Armstrongs? 

Debbie

[bougie]

   Hi Debbie
  I don't know if my Armstrongs are related to the Parkhouse Armstrongs
 as this is one side of my family that is proving very difficult to trace.
 There are so many Armstrongs. I don't live all that far from Canonbie
 [Hawick to be exact.]but as for knowing the names of all farms etc, i'm
 stumped.
 On my travels though i think i may have stumbled on a part of your family.
 In Canonbie graveyard i found;
      JOHN A# DIED AT PARKHOUSE CAULDSIE ON 1ST JAN 1883 AGED 69YRS
 ALSO HIS WIFE HELEN HENDERSON DIED 7TH MAY 1877 AGED 58YRS;
  and JOHN A# DIED AT PARKHOUSE ON 22ND JUNE 1920 AGED 68YRS;
 I have a lot of Armstrong graves written down that i have found around
 Canonbie and Newcastleton. Just in case i find i need them later.
 My Armstrongs are William A# and Sarah Chambers married 1804 in Canonbie.
On that cert and on some of their childrens b certs it has Clofses, quite
clearly and on the rest of the childrens b certs it has Bogglegill quite clearly.
Can't find these places. I suppose Clofses could be an old name for Closses.
     bougie

[Reiver]

Hi Bougie

Several families lived at Closses in the 1851 Census.  Bogglegill was not an address.
In the front of the book of Canonbie Memorial Inscriptions published by Shannon in the 1960s he included a map of the locality which had been based on a map of 1828.  This includes Boglehill but not Closses - although it may be just off his map.

If you locate Closes and Canonbie as Debbie suggests old-maps.co.uk,  enlarge it,  look at the top and then move up a bit  you should see a stream Bogle Gill come into view.  It flows out of the Esk (?) to the west just north of Loaninghead.  There was an address Bogg in 1851 in Canonbie though it doesn't appaer on old-maps near the Bogle Gill.  A Margaret Armstrong, aged 54, was Head of the Family at Bogg.  I don't have details of the other member of the family.

Regards
Reiver

[bougie]

  Hi Reiver
 Thanks for your help.
 I have; William Armstrong and Sarah Chambers, Gl---ier,[ don't know this one
 either]married 1804 Canonbie.
             William Armstrong and Sarah Chambers,Bogglegill, had a son born
 Jan 17th, bapt Feb 25th 1805,George;
 Another child , Hellen b;Bogglegill.1808
 Rest of children born clofses. It has a very long tail on the f.
 Can you help with their address when they married also?
      Ta bougie

[Reiver]

Hello Bougie

I am confident that your Clofses would, if spelled today, be Closses.  That is, it is a long s 
As I said previously there  were several families at Closses - spelt that way - in the 1851 Census.  It is apparent that in the 1860s when the OS map was (re)drawn  that they decided to put Closes which is/was just south of the Cross Keys Hotel at Canonbie.

It would appear there was a 'property' near the stream Bogle Gill in the early 1800s.  No one was at a place called Bogglegill/Bogle Gill at the 1851 Census.  There was however a location called Bogg which I haven't yet found on the early OS map.

The place name written after Sarah Chamber's name in your post will be Glenzier which of course is within Canonbie.    Have you used the site www.old-maps.co.uk  ?

Have you found William and Sarah in any census returns yet?

Cheers
Reiver

[bougie]

  Hi reiver
 Found Sarah in 1841 census at Clofses [again written like this]
 
 Sarah Armstrong  55?
 Jane                      25    ag/lab
 Elizabeth              20
 Jannit                   15     ag/lab
 Mary                      6
 James Graham       4
 Sarah's age doesn't tally as she was married in 1804 but it is definately the
 right family as the children are all correct
 Also have her on 1851 census living with dau Janet and husband Robert
 Mcvittie at Findiston, Ewes, age 66
 She must have been very young when married.
 Was there no age limit in those days.
   bougie

[bougie]

  Back again Reiver
 I have found an m.i for a cemy at Newcastleton
 JAMES ARMSTRONG TENANT IN BOGG DIED ON 11th JULY 1897 AGED 85yrs
 Could be that Bogg is up the Newcastleton way.
 The property by the stream at Bogle Gill is a big possibility as the place
 where my family lived in 1805-1808
 Have had a look at the old map of Canonbie and found Closes,but couldn't find
 Glenzier. Is it near Closes.
 Many thanks for your help
  bougie