Thomas Dalziel

[Gadget]

Robert(38) and Mary (28) married in 8 May 1857 in Lochmaben. Her parents were Thomas Dalziell  (weaver, deceased) and Jane McGeorge - as you thought, Jean 

Gadget

[Gadget]

In 1851, Mary is a Dairy maid in Sibaldie Side

813A Ed 2 Page 22

William Disckson farmer of 200 acres
......

Mary Daziel, 26, unm, servant, dairymaid, b. Dryfesdale
also a William Daziel, 33, unm, servant, farm labourer, b. Halfmorton



Gadget

[MSTURMEY]

SORRY FOLKS
I gave the wrong birth date for Thomas Dalziel.   He was born about 1848.   He was married to Mary Bell and in 1871 he had a son named Robert who was my grandfather.   This is all correct according to 1891 and 1871 census, birth, death and marriage certificates.  It's confusing about his mother's name e.g, is it Stewart, Dalziel, and who did she marry?
Sorry to have wasted your time, but again can anyone help.
Was interested to read some comments with the name McGeorge in the text.   This was my father's middle name e.g., John McGeorge Dalziel  born 11.2.1907 died 4th May 1984.   His father was Robert Dalziel (my grandfather), and Thomas Dalziel was his father and my great grandfather.   Thomas Dalziel married Mary Bel on 16th December, 1870 and he died on 24th October, 1890.    Lochmaben in Dumfrieshire has come up time and time again, but I know he lived and worked in the Glasgow area up to his death in 1890.
MSTURMEY

[Gadget]

Hi

I think if you read through carefully, you'll see that we worked out the dates by checking sources and have found his mother and her parents and his stepfather.

His baptism isn't recorded anywhere that we can see.

Gadget

[MSTURMEY]

Thank you everyone for all your help.  i really do appreciate it, and I'm getting so excited because for the first time in weeks I seem to be getting somewhere.   I spent some time at the GRO in Edinburgh on Monday.   Before then I knew absolutely nothing about my ancestors, and now I know who my great grandfather was - fantastic.
I am sorry to be such a pain, but I'm new to this game and I get all confused with the various birth, marriage and death certificates.   
However, just to confuse you all more, can anyone tell me where Frank Dalziel comes into the equation.   He is listed on Thomas Dalziel and Mary Bell's marriage certificate as the father together with Mary Dalziel (nee Stewart) as Thomas' parents.
Also - just to show my ignorance, some figures/numbers have been quoted on your replies which I don't understand.   eg.,
840 Ed 6 page 7 Lockerbie Road, and
Volume 840 Ed 4 Page 2, Source FHL Film 0224050 GROS REFERENCE.   
Later on there is anothr reference 813A d 2 Page 22.
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THESE NUMBERS AND REFERENCE NOS. ARE?
AND ALSO - WHERE DO I ACCESS THEM.
Thank you again,
MSTURMEY

[MSTURMEY]

Thank you everyone for all your help.  I really do appreciate it, and I'm getting so excited because for the first time in weeks I seem to be getting somewhere.   I spent some time at the GRO in Edinburgh on Monday.   Before then I knew absolutely nothing about my ancestors, and now I know who my great grandfather was - fantastic.
I am sorry to be such a pain, but I'm new to this game and I get all confused with the various birth, marriage and death certificates.  
However, just to confuse you all more, can anyone tell me where Frank Dalziel comes into the equation.   He is listed on Thomas Dalziel and Mary Bell's marriage certificate as the father together with Mary Dalziel (nee Stewart) as Thomas' parents.
Also - just to show my ignorance, some figures/numbers have been quoted on your replies which I don't understand.   eg.,
840 Ed 6 page 7 Lockerbie Road, and
Volume 840 Ed 4 Page 2, Source FHL Film 0224050 GROS REFERENCE.  
Later on there is another reference 813A d 2 Page 22.
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THESE NUMBERS AND REFERENCE NOS. ARE?
AND ALSO - WHERE DO I ACCESS THEM.
Forgive me if I seem a bit thick, but who were Mary Stewart's parents?
Referring to reply #10 am I to assume that Mary Daziel and William Daziel were married when Frank has been mentioned in the past.   Also, if Mary and William were married when did this take place.  
Also in reply #8 it's stated that in 1861 there is a son of 2 years.   However, I'm almost certain that Thomas was born about 1848 so he would be about 12 at the time of the 1861 census - so is this right?
If you're not absolutely cheesed off with my enquiry, I'd love to hear from you again.
Thank you once more,
MSTURMEY

[Gadget]

Hi 

The Frank/Francis is strange isn't it? If you compare the marriage and death certificates you'll see that the death one has no entry for a father, just MMary Dalziel married to Robert Stewart. This indicates illegitmacy - further evidenced by Mary being an unmarried dairymaid in the 1851 census. It is therefore probable that the 'father' on the marriage certificate was either made up or - and this is what I'm thinking - when asked, he said 'Frank' and the surname of Dalziel got put in. Thomas calles his third son Francis, so there's something there! He also swapped his mother's sunames around. No evidence of parenthood, etc. was required for these entries.

The figures refer to General Registry Office for Scotland codes. On a census  the first 3 figure number is the parish/district code (Lochmaben, Dryfesdales, etc), the second is the Enumeration District number (ED - in censuses the areas were divided into smaller areas which were supposedly the area an enumerator could cover in a day - hence enumeration district)) and the third the page reference in the volume. BMDs use two sets of figures in their codes the district and page references. In large areas the district and ED figures often have a suffix because of the size of the area concerned causes  entries to go over more than one volume, etc. Thus 654/01 or whatever.

The numbers are displayed on the individual records themselves. It is 'pukka' to quote them in your research to indicate that you have looked at the record.

Hope this helps.

I think Thomas's father was a Frank/Francis - but who?

Regards

Gadget

[MSTURMEY]

Thanks,
That's brilliant.   You have been most helpful.
I'll let you now how I get on.
Regards,
MSTURMEY

[MSTURMEY]

Hi there,
Me again after more information on Thomas Dalziel.   I am resonably certain that his mother's maiden name was Mary Dalziel (Thomas was illegitimate)   Think Mary was born about 1929 and worked as a Dairy maid for William Dickson who had about 200 acres of land.   Thomas was born about 1848 but can find no record of his birth.   Neither does he appear on the 1851, or 1861 census.   He was married to Mary Bell in 1870 (RD 644/03) in Glasgow and died there in 1890 \9RD644/05)   Mary his mother married Robert Stewart - I think on 1957.   On the 1841 census there is also a William Dalziel mention as being an agricultural labourer.   Could this be her brother?  (813A 001/0A 005)

What I would like to know is there anywhere illegitimate births are registered.   I have tried to find information on the poorhouse, but records don't go back to 1848.   Also, where was he from his birth until he turns up on the 1871 census.