Thomas Gray

[Gypsydescendant]

Hi Cindy What date was your Elias married to Sophia and where were they married mygg grand father  Elias or William Elias Gray born 1835 Cambridge was married to Jane Bailey 23. 4.1869 and was with her right to 1890 when there last child was born
gypsydescendant

[I forget]

Hi Gypsydescendant,
I did wonder about your William Elias Gray.  But it looks like he is too young to be this Elias.  Could Elias be his father though?  He would have been born before the marriage, Though Sophia would be rather too young to be his mother, assuming her age is correct. Maybe Elias married before though. 

The marriage of Sophia Smith and Elias Gray is in Wisbech (Lincolnshire) March Quarter 1842.  I haven't got the certificate yet to check it, but it fits.  On Abigail and JOhn's marriage certificate Elias Gray is down as Abigails father 'Licensed Hawker' deceased.

 I think he must have died quite early on, as  I haven't managed to find Elias generally, but I do have Sophia, as a widow, on the census.  The last one has her with Abigail and John Harris.  My transcriptions as follows:
1891, Sophia is with her daughter Abigail:
RG 12/1513/23, Sall, Norfolk, Haydon Old Lane Van and tents
John Harris, Abigail Harris, 4 children and 'Sophia GRAY, mother-in-law, Widow, 65yrs, b Cambridgehsire.

In 1871 she is a 'widow' and is in Cambridgshire RG10/1609/108/pg 26 travelling with Abigail aged22 and a son Daria? aged 26. 

The earliest I can find them so far is in 1861 RG9/960/94 pg 24, in Bythorn, Huntingdonshire where she is a widow and has in addition to Abigail : Golias, 19yrs, Mandos? son 15yrs, and Walter Gray who is a cousin. 
(thanks to Rootschatters who pointed me towards some of these entries)

At a guess, as Abigail is the youngest at 12, Elias must have died no more than 12 years previously.
Cheers
Cindy

[Degray]

William elias Gray was alive still in the early 1900's

[I forget]

So I guess 'my' Elias Gray is not William Elias.   

May still be  a connection somewhere though, I'll post if I find anything (not actively researching at the moment, long story, hoping to resume later next year).   

Sophia Gray's other children include Golias, if anyone has spotted him turning up anywhere.

Will watch this line with interest.

Cindy x

[Degray]

Hi Cindy, they are probably related..........william elias Gray was born 1835, he married in late 1860's...so possible he was married before, he died between 1903 and 1912, his granddaughters are still alive and well.

[I forget]

Hi Degray, 

thanks    will keep this in my notes. 

Cindy

[An65]

With regard to Elias Gray b.cir 1820, I have a couple of possible candidates :

Elias Gray c.30.01.1825 Weston Colville Cams, s/o Israel & Maria Gray.

This pair were both Grays, Maria Gray being baptised in 1805 at Upwell, Cams, d/o Thomas Gray & Susannah Faben/Fabin.

The other Elias was c.1808 St Giles Cambridge s/o William Gray & Retty. I believe this Retty is the d/o Fowk Gray & Mary, as a Rittah Tharp or Gray was baptised at Chisall Ex in 1778. I think its important to note that this baptism records her parents as William Gray and Mary Tharp.

This family seem to have closer ties with the Harris family - Elias's brothers Ambrose (married Maria Harris) and Meshack (married Sarah Harris) They are also the reputed parents of Israel who married Mary Gray (above).


With regard to Abigail Siblings, the Golias is quite likely to turn up as Elias on another census - Ive seen that before in another family. The Mandos you quoted, Ive had a look at that census and am pretty sure it says Mandosa.

Mandosa/Mendoza was a name Ive seen amongst the Smiths. I think the Dora Gray in 1871 Census (and Ive looked at that too) says Dosa - and certainly that person is a male. I have also come across a burial in 1821 for a "Dossey" Gray which could be a derivative of Mandoza, so there could well be more than one generation of Grays that includes this forename.

Anyway Hope that helps a bit.

[An65]

Just had a eureka moment...

Golias Gray was suposed to have been born cir 1840s Abbots Ripton - and probably went by the name Elias...

Well Elias Gray b.cir 1844 Abbots Ripton turns out to be married to Amelia Hearn/Heron d/o Edward/Eldenham Heron & Christiana Smith. Elias turns up on later census's with alias William Gray and Walter Hearn - but the family are identifiable by a search for daughter Mary Gray who consistently turns up born in 1869 at Halesowen Worc.

Elias & Amelia had:

Abigail 1866 Bordesley Warwks who married Ezra Herring aka Iza Heron

Mary b.1869 Halesowen Worc married Alfred Smith

Mizelli/Marcelli b.1871 Walsall married Billy King

George Napoleon (the census enumerators had fun with this one!) b.cir 1877 Bloxwich Staff c.1880 Cannock Staff, married Jane/Sally Smith

Matilda b.1878 Walsall Staff married Tom Winter and later Rabbi Smith.


What is interesting here, to me personally, is Elias Gray was reputedly a brother of twins Righteous and Cornelius who also married into the Heron family. But his was the one baptism I couldnt find. Now I can see why! Righteous and Cornelius were twin sons of of the Bethania Smith - William Gray - James Mobbs triangle, and this William was s/o Charles Gray & Aquila (Equally) Smith.

[janeo]

the Sally Smith married to Napoleon Gray was my great Aunt ,my grandad Ben Smiths sister .Their dad was John Smith married to Ann jane Deadman .thanks for the information ,i ve found so much family history reading all the old posts .... Janeo