Sheffield couple - where are they? Please help!

[Tuppie]

Hi All

I'm back from shopping and I agree with Hugh...maybe not as Albert didn't put a fathers name on the certificate.

The 1861 looks a definate as he is listed as Albert Lucas PINDER.

Oh well back to the drawing board.

Tuppie

[mich b]

Thanks Tuppie,

Yes I'd forgotten, momentarily about the "Lucas" bit - good point.

I ought to be concentrating on his "adopted" son William PINDER too as he was born BINI and will link back to my ggg-granddad.

On a side topic, I've just had contact with a new "relative" on my maternal side. It's my first discovery of someone with a common link. I am so excited I've put a posting on the General Board.

Thanks again.

Michelle 

[John Bucklow]

Hi.  Just joined, being about to re-start my family tree after a 30 year break (when I left Sheffield) & noticed this chain of emails.
Giovanni Bini was my GGGGrandfather, via his daughter Sophia Bini (later married Pinder), her son William Pinder, his daugher Maisie Pinder (later married Stones) & her daughter (& my mother) Doreen Vivian Bucklow Niesielski.   My notes on him are (the bits in "" are from family stories & possibly incorrect/exaggerated):
GIOVANNI BINI. A Catholic born in Lucca, Italy.  Said to be "a Tuscan vineyard owner and sculptor who was said to left Italy to evade war-time military service.  His older brother had been killed in the War" Became a British Subject (before 30.3.1851). Occupation in England: Plaster of Paris and artificial stone figure modeller and caster ("Some sculpture is in the Botanical Gardens, Sheffield"). Illiterate -1838.
Also known as: Beni 1838; Beney 1843 and 51; Binney 1845; Benney 1845;49,52; Beany 1852.
Residences:
Oct. 1838   Warwick St, Manchester.
   1841   Oriel St, Liverpool.
   1843   Wolverhampton.
   1844   Sheffield, On Burgess Roll/Electoral Register of Sheff 1852 to at least 1865 and Oct. 1870; qualification: house, shop not mentioned (worked in home).
l845   36 Little Pond St, Sheffield (rented)
1847   Turner's Yard (between 55 and 57), Silver St Head, Sheffield (rented).
1849-52   48 Trafalgar St, Sheffield (demolished, similar to
Canning St). Rented.
1852-6   Court 11, 7 Orange St, Sheffield. Rented.
1857-8   90 Devonshire St, Sheffield.  Rented house and shop.
1859   N\T
1860   11 Broomhall St, Sheffield.  Not mentioned in Elec.Reg.
1861-2 & 1864-5   151 Devonshire St, Sheffield.  Rented.
1863-4   79 & 79 1/2 Division St, Sheffield.  Rented house and shop.
1863-8   no79 or 1865-8 no 80 Division St. 1867 no 80 1/2 (Canning St. 79,8O 1/2,81 Trafalgar St).  Rented house and shop.
1868    5 Canning St. Rented.
Buried in Grave N13 Rivelin Cemetary, Sheffield.

Married SOPHIA KENNY (born in Dublin, Ireland.  Said to be "an Irish doctor's daughter") at St Nicholas Chapel, Copperas Hill, Liverpool.  She did not work, but did v fine embroidery with her hair. Buried Grave N13 Rivelin Cemetary? 

They had 5 children.........

I have loads more on his descendants & after I have got used to this website shall see if I can post the whole family tree.

[John Bucklow]

The rest follows:
She had the following children:

WILLIAM

ALBERT GEO Bap 29/l2/1872 at St Marie's Church, Sheffield.
1891 self-employed silver finisher living at 5 Canning St
1913-15 journeyman buffer of 131 Pearl St, Sheffield. Enlisted in 4th Hallamshire (Territorial) Battn, York & Lancs Regt, Sheffield.  Served in S Africa 1901. Awarded Volunteer Long Service Medal (for 20 yrs) in 1909. Attended Regimental Dinners, singing at Battn ones. Died of Pneumonia in the 3rd Northern Base Hospital, Ecclesall Rd, Sheffield.  Buried in grave 666 Christ Church, Fulwood.
Headstone reads: 39 SERGEANT, A.G.PINDER, YORK & LANCASTER REGT., 14.2.1915.
Married Emma

They had at least 4 children:
Albert of 5 Canning St. Buried in grave 666 Christ Church, Fulwood.
George Arthur. (one son served in 3rd Battn Y & L in WW1?).

ELIZ Bap 9.12.1874 at St. Marie's Church, Sheffield.  Died aged less than 1 year.  Buried in Grave N13 Rivelin Cemetary?

SOPHIA Bap 1.10.1876 at St. Marie's Church, Sheffield.  Died aged less than one.

ARTHUR born 4 yrs after ALP died. Bap 20.7.1881 at St Marie's Church, Sheffield.  Silversmith, married Rhoda Waite, lived at 5 Canning St. Arthur died at Netheredge Hospital and buried in common grave 14407Y City Road Cemetery, Sheffield.

WILLIAM Born 4 yrs before his mother's marriage.  Probably not a child of ALP.  In infancy looked after by Giovanni Bini.  He became a silversmith (1891 general silversmith(employed)) and worked for Dixons and later Levesley Bros both of Sheffield.  In 1920's he started his own business in, or just off Howard St, Sheffield, later entering into partnership with Walter Thickett, after son Percy Pinder left the business.  William was RSM York & Lancs (1914-18 attached to Green Howards?).  Attended Regimental Dinners which he organised and was Master of Ceremonies, sang at Battalion dinners, dances etc. 19.6.1906 was in escort of five who collected new colours from the King.  Awarded Coronation (Geo v and Mary 22.6.1911) Medal & Long Service Medal.
Residences:
Until marrying   5 Canning St.
1891-93/4   20 Vestry St. Sheffield.
1893/4   43 Chester St, Sheffield (demolished).
1893/4-99/1900   8 Canning St,
1899/1900-03/4   85 Eldon St, Sheffield (demolished, terraced house).
1903/4-10/11   42 Slinn St, Crookes, Sheffield (rented).
1910/11-55   32 Melbourne Rd, Crookes, Sheffield (rented).
Died at The Northern General Hospital, Herries Rd, Sheffield and although a Catholic, cremated at The Crematorium, City Rd, Sheff. Left £202 all to his wife (probate Wakefield 16.10.1944 to Mary Ann Pinder).
Married MARY ANN SAVAGE at Darnall Parish Church, Darnall, Sheff.  They had six children:

I have a photo of William Pinder in his WW1 RSM's uniform, but no earlier photos.  I have a few photos of houses in Sheffield & street plans showing where they lived in Sheffield town centre.

[John Bucklow]

This bit should be my second post:

CAROLINE Bap. 4.11.1838 at St. Chad's, Rock St, Manchester. Lame,
not from birth.  Died single.  Buried in Grave N13 Rivelin Cemetary.

TERESA Bap 26.7.1840 at St Nicholas' Chapel, Copperas Hill, Liverpool. Died single.  Buried in Grave N13 Rivelin Cemetary.

ANGELO GEO Bap 16.4.1843 at Church of SS Peter & Paul, North St, Wolverhampton.
Occupations: 1861 pupil teacher; 1881 telegraph clerk(Civil
Service) 1871-96 telegraph clerk; 1898-1901 telegraphist;
1902-7 no occupation; 1909 householder.
Residences, probably all rented:
1871-74   5 Canning St, Sheffield.  Rented.  Demolished.
1876   43 Pear St West, Sheffield (Wm Johnson occupier, AGB rented part?).  Demolished small terraced house.
1877-78   20 Bennett St, Sheffield.  Demolished, small terraced.
1879-85   51 Woodhead Rd, Sheffield.  Demolished, small terraced.
1885/6-87   59 Wolseley Rd, Sheffield.
1887-88   13 Sharrow St, Sheffield.
1887/8-93/4   37 Sharrow St, Sheffield. Rented.
1893/4-96/7   313 Abbeydale Rd, Sheffield.
1896/7-1901/2   78 Sharrow St, Sheffield. Rented.
1901/2-02/3   29 Khartoum Rd, Sheffield.
1902/3-05/6   22 Khartoum Rd, Sheffield.
1905/6-07/8   43 Wadborough Rd, Sheffield.
1907/8-09/10   50 South View Rd, Sheffield.
1909/10-16+   69 Wake Rd, Sheffield-only AEB. Rented.
Married Ann Eliz Ley of Washington Rd, Sheffield, at St. Marie's RC Church, Norfolk Row, Sheffield. She died at a daughter's home at 33 Harwood St. Sheffield, leaving £209 to be split equally amongst her three daughters.

They had 3/4 children:
Annie Elz married Herbert Farnsworth, journeyman bookbinder of 33 Harwood St. Sheffield.
Forence Louisa married Harry Tazzard Wigfield.
Ellen Beatrice married Frank Wetten piano tuner of 34 Holland Rd,
Sheffield.
Clara Eveline died aged 5 (uncertain whether connected).

SOPHIA

AUSTIN bap 22.12.1850 at St Marie's RC Church Sheffield.  Took over his father's business, "but as a result of his drinking the business was lost to a Manchester firm".
Residences:
1874     Division St, Sheffield.
1876     Milton St, Sheffield.
1877-78/9 6 Cross Hunt St, Sheffield (street demolished, small
terraced houses).
1878/9   8 Canning St, Sheffield.
1879/80   8 Gross Hunt St, Sheffield.
Married Ellen Marsh in Nottingham.

They had at least 2 children:
Theresa Bap. 10.6.1874 at St, Marie's Church, Sheffield.
Agnes   Bap. 12.1.1876            -do-

Sophia Bap 30.3.1845 at St Marie's Church, Sheffield. Educated at Notre Dame School, Sheffield?
Residences:
1867-8 8O 1/2 Division St,  Sheffield.
1872   5 Canning St, Sheffield  (rented). She was a shopkeeper there
from at least 1879 until her death.  Buried in grave 666 Christ
Church, Brookhouse Hill, Fulwood, Sheffield.
Married Albert Lucas Pinder (birth not reg.) file cutter (and
lodger?) of 6 Canning St at St Marie's Church, Sheffield. He died of Phthisis (T.B. especially of the lungs) at 5 Canning St.

She had the following children:

WILLIAM

My 2nd post follows from here

[mich b]

Wow, how do you know all this stuff?

Giovanni is my 3 x G.grandfather and Austin BINI (b.1852) was my 2 x great grandfather. I have always wondered why he and Ellen were living separately in 1911, he is only a mile away (in Sheffield), I guess drinking heavily would explain this.

I would love to talk to you more about our shared ancestry.

Michelle

[mich b]

By the way,

Austin and Ellen (m. Nottingham 1873) had 10 children, only 4 survived into adulthood. Clara who you mention above, d. aged five, was one of their children. At some point they 'fell out' with the Catholic church. My grandmother told me that my "Italian great grandfather, did marble carving in Sheffield town hall". Due to Giovanni's death and the building of the town hall, I assume this must have been my 2 x g.grandfather, Austin.

 

[John Bucklow]

Hi Michelle.
I was fortunate that my great aunt, Ivy Pinder (born in 1905) was alive when I started getting interested in the family tree in the 1970s.  My late mother knew quite a lot & both had lived in Sheffield for a long time.  I was a student in Sheffield with long holidays & had loads of time to spend at the Local Hist Library & wander around taking photos.
From Wiki the marble carving may be a reference to Sheffield Old Town Hall extensions in 1866 (later the High Court) New Town Hall completed in 1896.  There is a plaque in the entrance to the  present Town Hall to those who served in the Boar War & A Pinder & F Bini are on it.
I am in Sheffield a bit & see on Genes Reunited there are about 18 references to Sheffield newspaper notices for Giovanni & Angelo G Bini between 1850 and 1909; 5 for deaths & the rest for Giovanni selling his products by auction. I shall take copies when I am next there. I think Giovanni had a reasonably successful business at times.  All his Sheffield addresses were within the one block & I wonder if some of the slight changes in house numbers were not really moves at all.
Would you mind posting what you have in the way of text from our common ancestor Giovanni to recent times?
Cheers,  John

[mich b]

I have death certs for Giovanni and Sophia (I think for Sophia). I have a birth cert for Caroline, and her death cert. I have a birth cert for Fred (my great grandfather).

Fred BINI and William BINI (Pinder) were first cousins. Fred also made RSM in WW1 and he served in S.Africa, he was called home for the Kings coronation, which was delayed due to appendicitis. 

I have Fred's medals and a swagger stick. I have some photos of him too and a comprehensive obituary for him.

Austin and Ellen BINI (nee MARSH), had 10 children, but only 4 made it to adulthood.

Albert Lucas PINDER was born in Crabtree (a village in W.Riding) 2nd March 1846. He was baptised 29th March 1846 at the Anglican Cathedral Church of St.Peter and St.Paul (W.Riding?). His mother was Ann PINDER (b.1829 Ashton-u-Lyne), Ann's mother was Martha PINDER. Ann later married Christopher SMITH (20 years her senior) and they had a further 5 children (Ann, Eliza, Loveney, Margaret and Thomas). I believe Christopher had a daughter from a previous marriage.

Albert and Ann were both listed as File Cutters and Christopher was also a File Cutter.

I private messaged you.